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How long ago was that? Are you guys still in touch? Because it seems to me that recently developer salaries in Poland matched or even surpassed those in Austria
by 988747 4y ago
How long ago was that? Are you guys still in touch? Because it seems to me that recently developer salaries in Poland matched or even surpassed those in Austria :)
- ido 4y agoIt was maybe 15 years ago, but today instead of Poland it would be some poor Asian country. My point is that it's not just that Europeans earn less than Americans, they also earn more than other regions. If you want fairness that also applies to people under you, not just people above you.
- sealeck 4y agoI don't think this is likely to be true at a population level; Austria is a much richer country than Poland; has a much higher standard of education and in other sectors salaries are usually higher in Austria than Poland.
- 988747 4y agoAgree that this isn't likely to be true at population level - I was talking about Software Developers specifically. Disagree on "much higher standard of education" - even if Austria comes on top, it's just barely, not by a lot.
- yrgulation 4y agoI dont know where op gets their stats but pay in austria is by no means competitive. I know of a romanian dude who interviewed for a company there. Pompous session, ties, suit and the stench of a rigid hierarchy. Once they made their offer he laughed and told them he’d earn twice as much for the same (tech) job in romania. Perhaps an isolated case but DACH countries have an inflated sense of superiority not matching reality, at least in software tech. Interestingly i see many of them crapping on east europeans on this forum. Perhaps due to a sense of insecurity, but would be interesting if someone pulled some stats on how often they pull the east european “poverty” or “corruption” card out of their behind.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago>Once they made their offer he laughed and told them he’d earn twice as much for the same (tech) job in romania. Perhaps an isolated case Definitely not an isolated case. Austrian tech companies generally pay shit and are usually pretty backwards and burocratic due to the management heavy culture from the 20th century factories (WFH is frowned upon and your time in the office is tracked instead of looking at employee output) and highly conservative culture in general (everyone still uses cash). Also they put far too much value in having advanced degrees from their local universities rather than looking at experience and practical skills, so you end up in credential inflation town with colleagues who scuff at your code or technical opinions, because they "have a PhD from TU Sturmfart, and you don't". That explains why they have virtually no internationally successful local SW companies (unlike other small EU companies like Netherlands or Finland, or even poorer Estonia), and instead have just a bunch of mom and pop webshops, crusty ERP boyshops for local factories, and their outdated banking industry that can't even get stock trading and banking apps right and instead need to rely on the German Flatex and N26. Their only unicorn, Bitpanda, recently fired half the workforce, which they easily could because Austrian employees have virtually no protection against termination, so your employer can fire you without any reason with the 1-3 month notice period. The cherry on top is that non-competes are legal here and employers can choose to enforce them, which, as we know, is what made SV the cradle of innovation. /s I rest my case. QOL is generally good there and you can live well there, provided you do anything but tech, ideally work for the state or government enterprises and coast till retirement on your inherited real estate.
- EUROCARE 4y agoThis matches my experience, and also consider: I'm paying less than 8% income tax and health and social insurance combined on my income in the CEE country where I live. What's the tax and insurance in DE and A?
- sealeck 4y agoIf you look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_... it's pretty clear that the average monthly salary in Austria (adjusted for purchasing power parity) is roughly 2x that in Poland.
- BossingAround 4y agoFrom my experience, it's more the culture rather than education that forms "suboptimal" engineers. After all, engineers mostly learn from online resources in English anyways, so the quality of formal education doesn't come to play that much (and for the record, I don't really believe that the top tech uni in Vienna is leaps and bounds better than the top tech uni in Krakow). It's the work culture in smaller cities that'll probably make the population differences.
- V-2 4y agoWhat exactly implies Austria has a "much higher standard of education" than Poland? For example in the most recent PISA rating the average score of mathematics, science and reading is 513 for Poland (11th in the world) and 491 for Austria (28th place).
- sealeck 4y agoSorry, perhaps I should have said, people in Austria are less over educated (i.e. at the same education level Austrians earn more than Poles).