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When I started handling a business, I had stumbled upon several problems dealing with our accounting firm (big 4). I caught several mistakes the people they ass

When I started handling a business, I had stumbled upon several problems dealing with our accounting firm (big 4). I caught several mistakes the people they assigned to our account made (such as including VAT in an six figure invoice that was exempted in a particular case. It almost seems they were working for the revenue service). Worse, once they made a mistake registering a new employee for social security, then sent us a recourse document to sign that stated that we made that mistake. It was classless and unprofessional as they either should have owned that in the document or used the passive voice. Our questions went unanswered. We ended up firing them. When we were looking for a new accountant (another big 4), I made a document with questions that served to interview the lawyer, and all the issues served to draw up the contract and service agreement. I used to see one to two emails per day from the first accounting firm. Our accounting is basic. One enterprise client. One invoice per month. Few employees. Social security cheque every quarter. Taxes every month. Salary bank transfer every month. Nothing fancy, but somehow the first firm managed to screw this up so badly it ended becoming a massive cognitive load.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago
have you thought about trying local small accounting firms/law firms for your taxes as opposed to monolith "big 4?" big 4 people will have the best paid execs and partners but the leg work is made to be done by interns and stuff. On the other hand, in a small firm, its all hands on deck to finish/work on a case. i am a lawyer/accountant in india handling business/litigation of businesses. as a representative of the smaller boutique firms, i would suggest you look up your local firms first as they are more inclined to give more attention and care to your work
- Jugurtha 4y ago
  >have you thought about trying local small accounting firms/law firms for your taxes as opposed to monolith "big 4?" Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. >big 4 people will have the best paid execs and partners but the leg work is made to be done by interns and stuff. On the other hand, in a small firm, its all hands on deck to finish/work on a case. That was one clause in the agreement as I said. Our account was to be handled by seasoned people and we had put in the contract that they had to answer our questions. Granted, they don't always know what to do, but you're not left hanging, but regulations here are another story. >* smaller boutique firms, i would suggest you look up your local firms first as they are more inclined to give more attention and care to your work* Done that. It's good advice. Maybe for another company but we needed our accounting to be tight given the direction we wanted to go, and the cost of doing so was almost the same as going with a smaller accounting practice.
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    >Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange. i have had partners in our firm delay their medical procedures til the end of tax season specifically because small offices run a tight ship and loss of a single person means the rest of the team has to stay up late. our office regularly does 82 hour shifts during tax season but i am not even bragging. >Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. are you talking about an indian small accounting firm charging as much as a big 4? nice. i would love to be them. the fees charged by small 1-2-5 partner firms are a magnitude lower than big 4 prices. Indirect tax audit fees is like 30-40K inr in a good small firm while big 4/big firms do not take on cases with fees less than 100-200K inr. But those are my anecdata between our fees and the fees i hear is being charged by friends on those places. i would love to hear the anonymized specifics of the case, if you are so inclined to share with a total stranger. anyways, good luck finding a good partner/firm
    - Jugurtha 4y ago
      >are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange. The company is an LLC equivalent in Algeria. There's no tax season. Tax forms must be submitted and paid before the 20th of every month. Social security before the 30th of every month, or quarterly if the company has fewer than nine employees. Employees don't do their own taxes; instead, the company withholds the taxes/social security and pays on their behalf (retenue à la source). And yes, the accountant was unreachable before doing our taxes. >are you talking about an indian small accounting firm charging as much as a big 4? nice. i would love to be them. I'm not sure how I miscommunicated that it was in India. It's not, to be clear. It's not the small firms charging as high as a big 4, rather the big 4 charging something that's a multiple of smaller firms, but not an order of magnitude. The fees are subject to negotiatons before signing the contract. The way big 4s are structured allows that. They're a rather independent firms in a network sharing a name.

2Gkashmiri 4y ago

have you thought about trying local small accounting firms/law firms for your taxes as opposed to monolith "big 4?" big 4 people will have the best paid execs and partners but the leg work is made to be done by interns and stuff. On the other hand, in a small firm, its all hands on deck to finish/work on a case. i am a lawyer/accountant in india handling business/litigation of businesses. as a representative of the smaller boutique firms, i would suggest you look up your local firms first as they are more inclined to give more attention and care to your work

Jugurtha 4y ago
>have you thought about trying local small accounting firms/law firms for your taxes as opposed to monolith "big 4?" Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. >big 4 people will have the best paid execs and partners but the leg work is made to be done by interns and stuff. On the other hand, in a small firm, its all hands on deck to finish/work on a case. That was one clause in the agreement as I said. Our account was to be handled by seasoned people and we had put in the contract that they had to answer our questions. Granted, they don't always know what to do, but you're not left hanging, but regulations here are another story. >* smaller boutique firms, i would suggest you look up your local firms first as they are more inclined to give more attention and care to your work* Done that. It's good advice. Maybe for another company but we needed our accounting to be tight given the direction we wanted to go, and the cost of doing so was almost the same as going with a smaller accounting practice.
- 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
  >Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange. i have had partners in our firm delay their medical procedures til the end of tax season specifically because small offices run a tight ship and loss of a single person means the rest of the team has to stay up late. our office regularly does 82 hour shifts during tax season but i am not even bragging. >Yes, and we did. On several instances, we had silly problems like the accountant going to vacation right before tax deadline, other frustrations like communication problems. are you talking about an indian small accounting firm charging as much as a big 4? nice. i would love to be them. the fees charged by small 1-2-5 partner firms are a magnitude lower than big 4 prices. Indirect tax audit fees is like 30-40K inr in a good small firm while big 4/big firms do not take on cases with fees less than 100-200K inr. But those are my anecdata between our fees and the fees i hear is being charged by friends on those places. i would love to hear the anonymized specifics of the case, if you are so inclined to share with a total stranger. anyways, good luck finding a good partner/firm
  - Jugurtha 4y ago
    >are you saying a small firm's staff took a vacation during tax season? thats very strange. The company is an LLC equivalent in Algeria. There's no tax season. Tax forms must be submitted and paid before the 20th of every month. Social security before the 30th of every month, or quarterly if the company has fewer than nine employees. Employees don't do their own taxes; instead, the company withholds the taxes/social security and pays on their behalf (retenue à la source). And yes, the accountant was unreachable before doing our taxes. >are you talking about an indian small accounting firm charging as much as a big 4? nice. i would love to be them. I'm not sure how I miscommunicated that it was in India. It's not, to be clear. It's not the small firms charging as high as a big 4, rather the big 4 charging something that's a multiple of smaller firms, but not an order of magnitude. The fees are subject to negotiatons before signing the contract. The way big 4s are structured allows that. They're a rather independent firms in a network sharing a name.