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Absolutely, and this is being completely ignored in the whole discussion. We’re utterly dependent upon Clojure “core” for anything to become idiomatic; saying t

Absolutely, and this is being completely ignored in the whole discussion. We’re utterly dependent upon Clojure “core” for anything to become idiomatic; saying that it’s possible to make anything outside of core and do your own thing is about as productive as saying “just fork it” about opensource projects. I think that this post by Rich Hickey actually made me completely lose faith in Clojure’s stewardship after about 5 years. It basically signalled very strongly “we’re not interested in listening to the community”, which is fine, but that doesn’t align very well with how long-lived, successful opensource projects are managed. And I say all this as someone who was very actively involved in some of Clojure’s largest opensource projects.

tsuujin 4y ago
I just picked up clojure as a hobby project outside of work and I’m enjoying the language in general so far. I have to say that reading this rant gives me a bit of doubt about continuing. I actually agree with most of what this guy is saying, but the delivery is not good.
- stingraycharles 4y ago
  Clojure, the language, and Rich Hickey, the vision, have had a tremendous impact on my programming career. Transformations of data as the primary building block for writing code was such an enlightenment. I absolutely encourage you to continue your endeavor of learning Clojure, as it’s almost guaranteed to be a net positive. It’s just the stewardship of the language that is my biggest problem. It’s very anti-community (as evidenced by this rant), and in general there is a tendency of “elitist” mentality the more you get into the core community. If you’re able to ignore all that, and just do your own thing, you’ll be fine.
  - tsuujin 4y ago
    Well, I managed it with the Emacs community, so I guess I can do the same here lol.
- moomin 4y ago
  It’s an interesting road, and I like Clojure plenty, but ultimately it’s a cul-de-sac. And the reason it’s a cul-de-sac is pretty heavily laid out by the original post.

tsuujin 4y ago

I just picked up clojure as a hobby project outside of work and I’m enjoying the language in general so far. I have to say that reading this rant gives me a bit of doubt about continuing. I actually agree with most of what this guy is saying, but the delivery is not good.

stingraycharles 4y ago
Clojure, the language, and Rich Hickey, the vision, have had a tremendous impact on my programming career. Transformations of data as the primary building block for writing code was such an enlightenment. I absolutely encourage you to continue your endeavor of learning Clojure, as it’s almost guaranteed to be a net positive. It’s just the stewardship of the language that is my biggest problem. It’s very anti-community (as evidenced by this rant), and in general there is a tendency of “elitist” mentality the more you get into the core community. If you’re able to ignore all that, and just do your own thing, you’ll be fine.
- tsuujin 4y ago
  Well, I managed it with the Emacs community, so I guess I can do the same here lol.
moomin 4y ago
It’s an interesting road, and I like Clojure plenty, but ultimately it’s a cul-de-sac. And the reason it’s a cul-de-sac is pretty heavily laid out by the original post.