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I'm a foreigner in the UK on the UK equivalent of an H1B visa (the tier 2 killed migrant visa). I'm also tied to my employer, though it's a consultancy and I'm

by kokey 15y ago

I'm a foreigner in the UK on the UK equivalent of an H1B visa (the tier 2 killed migrant visa). I'm also tied to my employer, though it's a consultancy and I'm based at different clients on different projects so it doesn't get too dull. That said, I'm also frustrated that I can't start a business here. There is an entrepreneur visa, but you need either £250,000 of cash that's under your control (no loans) or £50,000 from a UK based VC, and even with that it's not easy to get. I doubt, politically, that it will become easier to get startup visas in the US and the UK. People actually don't want entrepeneurs from foreign cultures in their country. They don't want people from the Middle East and Asia open restaurants, take-aways, tailors, mechanics and other small businesses that employ them and their relatives. They don't want these people to have lifestyle businesses. People are racist and xenophobic. This is why they set the bar either high, so it's someone who will set up a large business that is likely to employ a lot of local people (or pay a lot of taxes) or they limit it to VC funded companies since these invest in certain more desirable types of businesses from a cultural perspective, like hi-tech.

mattmanser 15y ago
It's not racist or xenophobic to give priority to your own citizens over others. We're not racists or xenophobes just because our great-great-great-great-grandparents did a better job at setting up a country than yours. We're not obliged to fix the world just for you, we just want to live our own lives. Our unemployment is high enough to need to give priority to the children of the people who paid for it all, because that was the promise of the struggle. Start a business in your own country. If it's such a crap country, work on fixing it for the next generation. That responsibility's fallen to your generation, stop moaning and stand up.
- rglullis 15y ago
  >> We're not racists or xenophobes just because (...) Still xenophobic, though. I've lost count of how many strawmen you raised here: - No one is asking for you to "fix the world" for me or other immigrants. Like you, I just want "live my own life", without having to be artificially tied to one piece of land. - Who says that immigrants do not pay taxes? They pay just like you, and one could argue that they are actually subsidizing your welfare. Undocumented immigrants with jobs pay taxes like everyone else, yet they are not eligible for benefits. For example, I paid two years of Social Security here, and there is zero chance that I will see this money back. - Skilled immigrants are more likely to solve the problem of unemployment in your country. "They are taking our jobs" is a ridiculous fallacy.
  - mattmanser 15y ago
    Xenophobia is defined as "an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange Don't ever call someone you don't know a xenophobe, you know absolutely nothing about me. I fear UK white trash more than I ever have johnny foreigner. To be clear, I'd be deeply hurt and insulted by this, but you don't actually seem to know what it means. From the BBC: The unemployment total for 16-24 year olds hit a record high of 991,000 in the quarter, a jobless rate of 21.3%. They are the ones our government should be caring about, not you. Sorry. It's just that there aren't enough opportunities to go around and in the end a Government should be helping its citizens, not someone else's. That's the point of them. The original comment I replied to is calling his hosts vile names, as you are, just because you can't get that you're not entitled to anything in this world. You've been given an opportunity in this country and just because our citizens are naturally prioritized over you, why are you complaining and throwing names? My point about taxes is that your parents didn't pay any. Do you think all this infrastructure appeared yesterday? All this case law was invented last week? That the freedoms afforded were given willingly by kings or queens? It's all been invested in generation to generation. All those unemployed kids? Their parents worked here, paying towards a future for their children. An unwritten contract of pay it forward. Go back a generation or two and you find parents dying, blood, fear, struggle to give their children and their childrens children this opportunity. To ask the Government to give the same opportunities to someone who just turned up is naive at best. Calling them racists or xenophobes? Total lies and totally out of order. Britain is a liberal and tolerant country compared to many I've been to. There are bad eggs, no denying that, but we're one of the most progressive countries in the world. I fully admit our forefathers are to thank for this and I feel very lucky to have had the random luck to have been born here, but on the other hand your totally unrealistic sense of entitlement doesn't make everyone else a xenophobe or a racist. Xenophobia and racism are specific, vile states of mind. Every country in the world prioritizes their citizens. Twisting those words to mean that is, frankly, pathetic.
    - rglullis 15y ago
      It may not be conscious for you, but until you are dividing things between "your country" and "someone else's", I will consider your statements xenophobic. We are both in agreement about honoring one social contract, the main difference is that you don't think that others should have any choice of which contract to establish in the first place. Also, it strikes me as odd for you to defend all the progress made by your ancestors in bringing freedom to people, but not realizing that there is more that could be done. My "complaining and throwing names" about immigration law today would be equivalent to your ancestors complaining about them being exploited by some feudal lord. More importantly, you don't realize that isolating people based on their country of origin (instead of their potential to contribute to society) is the opposite of progress. You may think that Britain is one of the most progressive countries, but oddly it has been surpassed in many indicators of quality of life by Canada and Australia. These countries have far saner immigration policies. What's stopping your generation to try to bring this level of progress to Britain? The unwritten contract of "pay it forward" also applies to you, doesn't it? I'm sorry if you feel offended by any of what I said, I just wish there was a way to disabuse the notion that "country of birth" is some valid parameter to assess an individual. It could have been true a couple of generations ago, but the world of today can (and should) get away from these physical barriers. P.S: I just realized my bad wording on the original comment. I'm not in the US as an undocumented immigrant. I wanted to say that even being in the US with a H1B visa, I still will not get access to what I paid to Social Security.
- HistoryInAction 15y ago
  Why should we want these immigrants to start a business in their own countries? They 'grow the pie' there, create jobs there, and build internationally competitive businesses there? I love the StartupChile folks, but I want the US to crush them out of existence for being economically uncompetitive. We're not; we're losing. I'm standing up to make sure America stays economically competitive. We've got the capital, so let's make sure it stays here and doesn't follow great founders who want to come here and can't because of dumb immigration policies.

by kokey 15y ago

mattmanser 15y ago

It's not racist or xenophobic to give priority to your own citizens over others. We're not racists or xenophobes just because our great-great-great-great-grandparents did a better job at setting up a country than yours. We're not obliged to fix the world just for you, we just want to live our own lives. Our unemployment is high enough to need to give priority to the children of the people who paid for it all, because that was the promise of the struggle. Start a business in your own country. If it's such a crap country, work on fixing it for the next generation. That responsibility's fallen to your generation, stop moaning and stand up.

rglullis 15y ago
>> We're not racists or xenophobes just because (...) Still xenophobic, though. I've lost count of how many strawmen you raised here: - No one is asking for you to "fix the world" for me or other immigrants. Like you, I just want "live my own life", without having to be artificially tied to one piece of land. - Who says that immigrants do not pay taxes? They pay just like you, and one could argue that they are actually subsidizing your welfare. Undocumented immigrants with jobs pay taxes like everyone else, yet they are not eligible for benefits. For example, I paid two years of Social Security here, and there is zero chance that I will see this money back. - Skilled immigrants are more likely to solve the problem of unemployment in your country. "They are taking our jobs" is a ridiculous fallacy.
- mattmanser 15y ago
  Xenophobia is defined as "an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange Don't ever call someone you don't know a xenophobe, you know absolutely nothing about me. I fear UK white trash more than I ever have johnny foreigner. To be clear, I'd be deeply hurt and insulted by this, but you don't actually seem to know what it means. From the BBC: The unemployment total for 16-24 year olds hit a record high of 991,000 in the quarter, a jobless rate of 21.3%. They are the ones our government should be caring about, not you. Sorry. It's just that there aren't enough opportunities to go around and in the end a Government should be helping its citizens, not someone else's. That's the point of them. The original comment I replied to is calling his hosts vile names, as you are, just because you can't get that you're not entitled to anything in this world. You've been given an opportunity in this country and just because our citizens are naturally prioritized over you, why are you complaining and throwing names? My point about taxes is that your parents didn't pay any. Do you think all this infrastructure appeared yesterday? All this case law was invented last week? That the freedoms afforded were given willingly by kings or queens? It's all been invested in generation to generation. All those unemployed kids? Their parents worked here, paying towards a future for their children. An unwritten contract of pay it forward. Go back a generation or two and you find parents dying, blood, fear, struggle to give their children and their childrens children this opportunity. To ask the Government to give the same opportunities to someone who just turned up is naive at best. Calling them racists or xenophobes? Total lies and totally out of order. Britain is a liberal and tolerant country compared to many I've been to. There are bad eggs, no denying that, but we're one of the most progressive countries in the world. I fully admit our forefathers are to thank for this and I feel very lucky to have had the random luck to have been born here, but on the other hand your totally unrealistic sense of entitlement doesn't make everyone else a xenophobe or a racist. Xenophobia and racism are specific, vile states of mind. Every country in the world prioritizes their citizens. Twisting those words to mean that is, frankly, pathetic.
  - rglullis 15y ago
    It may not be conscious for you, but until you are dividing things between "your country" and "someone else's", I will consider your statements xenophobic. We are both in agreement about honoring one social contract, the main difference is that you don't think that others should have any choice of which contract to establish in the first place. Also, it strikes me as odd for you to defend all the progress made by your ancestors in bringing freedom to people, but not realizing that there is more that could be done. My "complaining and throwing names" about immigration law today would be equivalent to your ancestors complaining about them being exploited by some feudal lord. More importantly, you don't realize that isolating people based on their country of origin (instead of their potential to contribute to society) is the opposite of progress. You may think that Britain is one of the most progressive countries, but oddly it has been surpassed in many indicators of quality of life by Canada and Australia. These countries have far saner immigration policies. What's stopping your generation to try to bring this level of progress to Britain? The unwritten contract of "pay it forward" also applies to you, doesn't it? I'm sorry if you feel offended by any of what I said, I just wish there was a way to disabuse the notion that "country of birth" is some valid parameter to assess an individual. It could have been true a couple of generations ago, but the world of today can (and should) get away from these physical barriers. P.S: I just realized my bad wording on the original comment. I'm not in the US as an undocumented immigrant. I wanted to say that even being in the US with a H1B visa, I still will not get access to what I paid to Social Security.
HistoryInAction 15y ago
Why should we want these immigrants to start a business in their own countries? They 'grow the pie' there, create jobs there, and build internationally competitive businesses there? I love the StartupChile folks, but I want the US to crush them out of existence for being economically uncompetitive. We're not; we're losing. I'm standing up to make sure America stays economically competitive. We've got the capital, so let's make sure it stays here and doesn't follow great founders who want to come here and can't because of dumb immigration policies.