4 ms·

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets

I never understand the schedule for schools: 1. elementary school starts at 7:30AM, middle school at 8:20, high school at 9:10 here. So, the youngest kid gets up at 6:50AM, older ones at 7:50AM, oldest at 8:40(assuming you're not too far from school that is). why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. 2. School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they can enjoy longer break in spring and fall, where outdoor weather is much better to get around.

bluGill 4y ago
Schools reused school buses, once they deliver the elementary school kids it is back out (different route) for the next grade. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other schools in your district with other start times. If the school system would team up with public transit, they are already a quarter of the say to all day bus service for everyone.
- itronitron 4y ago
  In many European cities all public school students use the existing public transit (buses, trams, subway). Very young children are typically dropped off and picked up by a parent, but beyond second grade they are usually traveling with their peers.
  - EUROCARE 4y ago
    "all" is hyper-optimistic. I live in such city, and it's half at best, the rest needs a car to get around anyways; and most schools require parents to pick up children at least until third grade.
least 4y ago
> why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. I think there's been quite a few studies indicating that teenagers benefit the most from later start times due to the shift in their internal clock. Little kids can deal with earlier start times. Staggered start is frequently due to logistics; they don't want to pay for a larger fleet of school buses and drivers to facilitate the schools starting at the same time.
- chucknthem 4y ago
  Helps working parents with logistics too. High school kids can dress themselves and get themselves to school.
KMag 4y ago
I've heard that adolescents'/early adults' biological clocks skew later. In my cohort, there are lots of parents annoyed that early elementary school kids wake up before them on weekends. Adolescents on the other hand are notorious for sleeping in. Anecdotes don't make data, but I've heard second hand that data backs up these stereotypes. Supposedly Summer break is so that kids can help with harvests on family farms.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  If I let my body clock do what it wants, I sleep from about 3am - 11am. This has been my tendency since high school age. I'm 56 now. My memory of the 22 years I had kids living in the house is slightly fogged by me always being tired from having to get up early to be sure they got to school and me to work. With the pandemic and WFH I shifted much closer to my natural schedule. We're officially back in the office now, but nobody is really taking attendance so I get up at around 11, do some email while I eat breakfast, then head in to the office until about 6pm. I'm still getting as much or more done as I ever did, because I was too tired to be effective when I was coming in at 8:00 and basically just stared at the screen for two or three hours until I really woke up.
gruez 4y ago
A recent economist article explains it well: >Since the 1950s Americans have been moving away from cities to sprawling suburbs with limited public transport. Families became car-dependent and buses were used to get pupils to school. But to save money schools often have to share bus fleets. High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/06/23/california-pushes-back-public-school-start-times https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/06/23/californi...
- deleted 4y ago
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- thehappypm 4y ago
  It’s less about “saving money” IMO than about wastefulness. Every student going at the same time is just a waste of busing resources. Staggering it a bit is more efficient, which sure saves money but also just prevents waste
  - spc476 4y ago
    I attended elementary school (age 5-10, grades 1-5) in a small town. Each bus did four trips---two in the morning, and two in the afternoon. The morning trip wasn't bad as the kids needed to be at the stop in time for the bus to pick them up. It was after school that was bad for "second load" kids---they had to wait maybe half an hour (or more) for the bus to finish the route for the kids in "first load".
    - polski-g 4y ago
      Seems like they could just pick up all aged kids at the same time and make multiple drop-off points at the various schools.
      - spc476 4y ago
        Not enough buses for that.
InefficientRed 4y ago
> why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. I've always heard teenagers need more sleep than younger kids. I've never actually verified this claim. In my area it's the opposite, and the reason is simple: high schoolers don't need childcare. > School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they can enjoy longer break in spring and fall, where outdoor weather is much better to get around. That's a pure anachronism, but switching costs are genuinely high so not totally irrational.
- bilsbie 4y ago
  It may not be that teenagers need more sleep rather that it’s harder for them to get enough sleep because they don’t have someone else controlling their sleep schedule like children do.
  - ajmurmann 4y ago
    It's neither. There have been studies that showed that they don't need more sleep, but are naturally on a later circadian rhythm. Young kids are on a early cycle. Once they become teens the cycle shifts to later hours and then in the 20s starts moving forward again. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648699/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648699/
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gonehome 4y ago
1. It's way better for younger kids to start earlier than older kids, gives time for parents to get them out the door before work (older kids can manage themselves). There's also some evidence that older kids have more trouble getting up super early. 2. Highly regionally variable (California summer is the best season by far, east coast summer is much worse than fall) - summer also has the longest daytime light which is nice.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  East coast summer is much worse than fall? What do you mean?
  - gonehome 4y ago
    Generalizing a bit, but the east coast in the summer is often very hot, humid, and buggy. The east coast fall is often less humid and more temperate (more pleasant to be outside). The west coast summer can be hot, but is rarely humid. Middle of the country varies too much to really generalize imo.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Depends on a lot of things of course--including where on the East Coast and the activity. (I wouldn't make such a categorical statement about Maine for example.) But not so hot and humid. Not so buggy. (Also fewer people.) In general, I'd say that September/October are the ideal months for much of New England (and a lot of the West Coast as well.)
lemoncookiechip 4y ago
"why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me." It's so parents who have to go to work, can drop their kids off. The youngest are the ones who shouldn't (in most cities unfortunately) be going by public transports by themselves. While teens can just take the bus or subway.
chefandy 4y ago
For us in high school we started the earliest. I think the idea was that older siblings might need to care for younger ones when they got out of school. Being a night owl, I’m 100% positive it was a driving factor in my disengagement and eventual expulsion (for truancy) from public school.
subsubzero 4y ago
Its totally designed for working parents, little kids need the most attention and therefore have the earliest start times. As kids get older they are more self sufficient hence the later school start times. But I think the reason for these times primarily is for parents where both of them go to work early. I am glad to see high schoolers start later as I remember having a very hard time getting up early during my teenage years.
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bluGill 4y ago

Schools reused school buses, once they deliver the elementary school kids it is back out (different route) for the next grade. I wouldn't be surprised if there were other schools in your district with other start times. If the school system would team up with public transit, they are already a quarter of the say to all day bus service for everyone.

itronitron 4y ago
In many European cities all public school students use the existing public transit (buses, trams, subway). Very young children are typically dropped off and picked up by a parent, but beyond second grade they are usually traveling with their peers.
- EUROCARE 4y ago
  "all" is hyper-optimistic. I live in such city, and it's half at best, the rest needs a car to get around anyways; and most schools require parents to pick up children at least until third grade.

least 4y ago

> why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. I think there's been quite a few studies indicating that teenagers benefit the most from later start times due to the shift in their internal clock. Little kids can deal with earlier start times. Staggered start is frequently due to logistics; they don't want to pay for a larger fleet of school buses and drivers to facilitate the schools starting at the same time.

chucknthem 4y ago
Helps working parents with logistics too. High school kids can dress themselves and get themselves to school.

KMag 4y ago

I've heard that adolescents'/early adults' biological clocks skew later. In my cohort, there are lots of parents annoyed that early elementary school kids wake up before them on weekends. Adolescents on the other hand are notorious for sleeping in. Anecdotes don't make data, but I've heard second hand that data backs up these stereotypes. Supposedly Summer break is so that kids can help with harvests on family farms.

SoftTalker 4y ago
If I let my body clock do what it wants, I sleep from about 3am - 11am. This has been my tendency since high school age. I'm 56 now. My memory of the 22 years I had kids living in the house is slightly fogged by me always being tired from having to get up early to be sure they got to school and me to work. With the pandemic and WFH I shifted much closer to my natural schedule. We're officially back in the office now, but nobody is really taking attendance so I get up at around 11, do some email while I eat breakfast, then head in to the office until about 6pm. I'm still getting as much or more done as I ever did, because I was too tired to be effective when I was coming in at 8:00 and basically just stared at the screen for two or three hours until I really woke up.

gruez 4y ago

A recent economist article explains it well: >Since the 1950s Americans have been moving away from cities to sprawling suburbs with limited public transport. Families became car-dependent and buses were used to get pupils to school. But to save money schools often have to share bus fleets. High-schoolers are usually picked up first, then middle school, to prevent elementary pupils from waiting in the morning darkness. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/06/23/california-pushes-back-public-school-start-times https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/06/23/californi...

deleted 4y ago
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thehappypm 4y ago
It’s less about “saving money” IMO than about wastefulness. Every student going at the same time is just a waste of busing resources. Staggering it a bit is more efficient, which sure saves money but also just prevents waste
- spc476 4y ago
  I attended elementary school (age 5-10, grades 1-5) in a small town. Each bus did four trips---two in the morning, and two in the afternoon. The morning trip wasn't bad as the kids needed to be at the stop in time for the bus to pick them up. It was after school that was bad for "second load" kids---they had to wait maybe half an hour (or more) for the bus to finish the route for the kids in "first load".
  - polski-g 4y ago
    Seems like they could just pick up all aged kids at the same time and make multiple drop-off points at the various schools.
    - spc476 4y ago
      Not enough buses for that.

InefficientRed 4y ago

> why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me. I've always heard teenagers need more sleep than younger kids. I've never actually verified this claim. In my area it's the opposite, and the reason is simple: high schoolers don't need childcare. > School is off in hot summer and cold winter, I would prefer they study on campus then, so they can enjoy longer break in spring and fall, where outdoor weather is much better to get around. That's a pure anachronism, but switching costs are genuinely high so not totally irrational.

bilsbie 4y ago
It may not be that teenagers need more sleep rather that it’s harder for them to get enough sleep because they don’t have someone else controlling their sleep schedule like children do.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  It's neither. There have been studies that showed that they don't need more sleep, but are naturally on a later circadian rhythm. Young kids are on a early cycle. Once they become teens the cycle shifts to later hours and then in the 20s starts moving forward again. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648699/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4648699/

deleted 4y ago

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deleted 4y ago

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gonehome 4y ago

1. It's way better for younger kids to start earlier than older kids, gives time for parents to get them out the door before work (older kids can manage themselves). There's also some evidence that older kids have more trouble getting up super early. 2. Highly regionally variable (California summer is the best season by far, east coast summer is much worse than fall) - summer also has the longest daytime light which is nice.

thehappypm 4y ago
East coast summer is much worse than fall? What do you mean?
- gonehome 4y ago
  Generalizing a bit, but the east coast in the summer is often very hot, humid, and buggy. The east coast fall is often less humid and more temperate (more pleasant to be outside). The west coast summer can be hot, but is rarely humid. Middle of the country varies too much to really generalize imo.
- ghaff 4y ago
  Depends on a lot of things of course--including where on the East Coast and the activity. (I wouldn't make such a categorical statement about Maine for example.) But not so hot and humid. Not so buggy. (Also fewer people.) In general, I'd say that September/October are the ideal months for much of New England (and a lot of the West Coast as well.)

lemoncookiechip 4y ago

"why the youngest ended up getting up the earliest puzzles me." It's so parents who have to go to work, can drop their kids off. The youngest are the ones who shouldn't (in most cities unfortunately) be going by public transports by themselves. While teens can just take the bus or subway.

chefandy 4y ago

For us in high school we started the earliest. I think the idea was that older siblings might need to care for younger ones when they got out of school. Being a night owl, I’m 100% positive it was a driving factor in my disengagement and eventual expulsion (for truancy) from public school.

subsubzero 4y ago

Its totally designed for working parents, little kids need the most attention and therefore have the earliest start times. As kids get older they are more self sufficient hence the later school start times. But I think the reason for these times primarily is for parents where both of them go to work early. I am glad to see high schoolers start later as I remember having a very hard time getting up early during my teenage years.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]