3 ms·

"Doctors hate this simple trick to reduce <illness>." That's the strange spam message I could never understand. Surely doctors would be delighted at any metho

"Doctors hate this simple trick to reduce <illness>." That's the strange spam message I could never understand. Surely doctors would be delighted at any method to improve health? So I always assumed the "trick" to be quackery with dangerous side effects. After all, why else would "doctors hate it"? Eventually I realised these messages are exclusively US American, the only place on the planet where doctors could plausibly resent people improving their health at the expense of their profits (or at least that's the implication that seems to rest on an entrenched cultural cynicism). Am I totally wrong?

kube-system 4y ago
You're overcomplicating your analysis. The purpose of ads is to generate attention. The message is effective for Americans for the same way that it is effective for you. It leaves the reader with multiple questions, which is more effective than an alternative phrasing which may leave someone with one or zero questions. Those ads are not posted by medical professionals, they're posted by scam operations. Healthcare in the US uses specialized labor just like any other developed nation. US doctors are not concerned with financial operations, they're focused on clinical duties. For any typical hospital, the people who do anything with finance or billing are not even in the same building as doctors.
vorpalhex 4y ago
You are totally wrong. Quackery exists all over the EU and other socialized systems. The idea that you can fix issues by drinking water or vinegar instead of going through Chemo or surgery has always been an easy sell to the gullible.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  So you're saying my initial interpretation is the correct one? "Doctors hate this" because it's fake and leads people to false hope and ineffective outcomes? But I'm still confused. Other than as an arresting "attention grab" (as another commenter says) why would someone advertise a product by denigrating it, even semi-ironically?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    "Hey Doc, I've stopped going to Chemo because the internet told me drinking vinegar would cure my cancer" The scam only works if you isolate the gullible from their doctor.
rglover 4y ago
Not at all. The solution in America is often to medicate, not change your own behavior or diet. If you watch regular television here (with commercials), every other commercial is for some new pill you need to take. When you go to a doctor's office, it's not uncommon to see a "drug rep" roll in a suitcase with samples of new drugs they want doctors to push (which inevitably comes with financial incentives). Being a doctor is a business just like any other. And just like any other business, some operate ethically while others don't.
jcranmer 4y ago
Those messages come from the "health supplement" industry, which is basically a segment of the health industry that the FDA is prohibited by law from regulating. And it entirely feeds on consumer cynicism towards the health industry, despite the fact that the major players in "health supplements" are guilty of everything the health industry is accused of being.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  What you're saying is a revalation to me. I did not realise the US medical science was split along economic/regulatory lines. Surely this is doing everyone a disservice?
CogitoCogito 4y ago
> That's the strange spam message I could never understand. Well the message is likely untrue so maybe it's best not to try to understand it.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  > Well the message is likely untrue so maybe it's best not to try to understand it. I hear you saying - don't give credence to idiots. But at the same time that's a strange philosophy as I've found some of the most interesting truths come from understanding the lies people tell, and why.
fritztastic 4y ago
It's not that doctors resent people improving their health, it's that people are wary of their healthcare services existing in a for-profit system- these types of scams play to the paranoia and fear that people associate with medical establishments selling treatments rather than establishing preventative health. Basically it boils down to the sentiment people generally have that doctors benefit from sick people because they make money from people being sick. Anecdotally, I remember growing up in Brazil and we were taught in school about human anatomy and all sorts of health issues and how nutrition, immunization, proper hygeine, etc. helped prevent being sick... as well as home remedies for simple illness. But here in the US people seem to seek some authority to provide solutions, and these scam pseudo-medical ads play to this and fill the gap where state medicine and folk knowledge would otherwise be.
- fritztastic 4y ago
  Simply put, it's a trust issue. I think in many places people establish a relationship with their primary doctor, where the Dr knows them and their medical history in detail. Growing up, my family doctor had treated my family for generations and was familiar with me as a person even though I did not have many appointments. But since I've moved to America most of my Dr. appointments are focused on the issue I am having as opposed to treating me for an issue. The Dr skims through my medical history to see if the issue relates to anything relevant. The appointments are hurried and impersonal. There is a business aspect to medicine in America- it's business more than it is healthcare, really. I have often felt more like I am going in for maintenance like a machine than going in to speak to someone who uses their knowledge to help me be the healthiest I can be. I know a lot of people here who also go to doctors and have their issues dismissed, minimized, or attributed to stress- and leave without any sense of what to do, besides grab a prescription or see a specialist. There is a helplessness I perceive in many people, and some end up with many prescriptions for different things and later find out there is an underlying issue that was overlooked all along. There are many many stories of people whose problems may not have persisted so long if their medical providers had communicated better- which perhaps most of them have no incentive to do, because this is time consuming and therefore loses them time/money. Whereas in a system where private doctors have to conpete with state provided healthcare, my anecdotal belief, they have an incentive to do better. Anyway, having an impersonal system leaves people feeling like they need to look for solutions themselves, looking for hope at a cheaper price than a stack of copays and possibly having to deal with waiting long times for referrals. This is also true of anyone anywhere feeling desperate and looking for some control in regards to their health problems. So this opens the door to a market of people offering miracle cures. Just happens to be there is a lot of distrust baked into the reality that healthcare in America prioritizes profit over people.

kube-system 4y ago

You're overcomplicating your analysis. The purpose of ads is to generate attention. The message is effective for Americans for the same way that it is effective for you. It leaves the reader with multiple questions, which is more effective than an alternative phrasing which may leave someone with one or zero questions. Those ads are not posted by medical professionals, they're posted by scam operations. Healthcare in the US uses specialized labor just like any other developed nation. US doctors are not concerned with financial operations, they're focused on clinical duties. For any typical hospital, the people who do anything with finance or billing are not even in the same building as doctors.

vorpalhex 4y ago

You are totally wrong. Quackery exists all over the EU and other socialized systems. The idea that you can fix issues by drinking water or vinegar instead of going through Chemo or surgery has always been an easy sell to the gullible.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
So you're saying my initial interpretation is the correct one? "Doctors hate this" because it's fake and leads people to false hope and ineffective outcomes? But I'm still confused. Other than as an arresting "attention grab" (as another commenter says) why would someone advertise a product by denigrating it, even semi-ironically?
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  "Hey Doc, I've stopped going to Chemo because the internet told me drinking vinegar would cure my cancer" The scam only works if you isolate the gullible from their doctor.

rglover 4y ago

Not at all. The solution in America is often to medicate, not change your own behavior or diet. If you watch regular television here (with commercials), every other commercial is for some new pill you need to take. When you go to a doctor's office, it's not uncommon to see a "drug rep" roll in a suitcase with samples of new drugs they want doctors to push (which inevitably comes with financial incentives). Being a doctor is a business just like any other. And just like any other business, some operate ethically while others don't.

jcranmer 4y ago

Those messages come from the "health supplement" industry, which is basically a segment of the health industry that the FDA is prohibited by law from regulating. And it entirely feeds on consumer cynicism towards the health industry, despite the fact that the major players in "health supplements" are guilty of everything the health industry is accused of being.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
What you're saying is a revalation to me. I did not realise the US medical science was split along economic/regulatory lines. Surely this is doing everyone a disservice?

CogitoCogito 4y ago

> That's the strange spam message I could never understand. Well the message is likely untrue so maybe it's best not to try to understand it.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
> Well the message is likely untrue so maybe it's best not to try to understand it. I hear you saying - don't give credence to idiots. But at the same time that's a strange philosophy as I've found some of the most interesting truths come from understanding the lies people tell, and why.

fritztastic 4y ago

It's not that doctors resent people improving their health, it's that people are wary of their healthcare services existing in a for-profit system- these types of scams play to the paranoia and fear that people associate with medical establishments selling treatments rather than establishing preventative health. Basically it boils down to the sentiment people generally have that doctors benefit from sick people because they make money from people being sick. Anecdotally, I remember growing up in Brazil and we were taught in school about human anatomy and all sorts of health issues and how nutrition, immunization, proper hygeine, etc. helped prevent being sick... as well as home remedies for simple illness. But here in the US people seem to seek some authority to provide solutions, and these scam pseudo-medical ads play to this and fill the gap where state medicine and folk knowledge would otherwise be.

fritztastic 4y ago
Simply put, it's a trust issue. I think in many places people establish a relationship with their primary doctor, where the Dr knows them and their medical history in detail. Growing up, my family doctor had treated my family for generations and was familiar with me as a person even though I did not have many appointments. But since I've moved to America most of my Dr. appointments are focused on the issue I am having as opposed to treating me for an issue. The Dr skims through my medical history to see if the issue relates to anything relevant. The appointments are hurried and impersonal. There is a business aspect to medicine in America- it's business more than it is healthcare, really. I have often felt more like I am going in for maintenance like a machine than going in to speak to someone who uses their knowledge to help me be the healthiest I can be. I know a lot of people here who also go to doctors and have their issues dismissed, minimized, or attributed to stress- and leave without any sense of what to do, besides grab a prescription or see a specialist. There is a helplessness I perceive in many people, and some end up with many prescriptions for different things and later find out there is an underlying issue that was overlooked all along. There are many many stories of people whose problems may not have persisted so long if their medical providers had communicated better- which perhaps most of them have no incentive to do, because this is time consuming and therefore loses them time/money. Whereas in a system where private doctors have to conpete with state provided healthcare, my anecdotal belief, they have an incentive to do better. Anyway, having an impersonal system leaves people feeling like they need to look for solutions themselves, looking for hope at a cheaper price than a stack of copays and possibly having to deal with waiting long times for referrals. This is also true of anyone anywhere feeling desperate and looking for some control in regards to their health problems. So this opens the door to a market of people offering miracle cures. Just happens to be there is a lot of distrust baked into the reality that healthcare in America prioritizes profit over people.