6 ms·

The story doesn't discuss what's causing this, but another story in Rolling Stone has a plausible lead: > “They [company] were kind of implicating the customer

The story doesn't discuss what's causing this, but another story in Rolling Stone has a plausible lead: > “They [company] were kind of implicating the customer in not cooking them correctly, but I definitely did because I cook a lot of vegetarian stuff,” says Aarts, who is a vegetarian and allergic to gluten. She says she sautéed the lentils until they started to crisp and even blacken a bit because she knows they need to be cooked thoroughly. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/daily-harvest-influencer-gallbladder-hospital-lentil-recall-1372422/ https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/daily-... It turns out lentils contain lectins, a class of molecules with some alarming chemical characteristics: > Lectins are carbohydrate binding (glyco)proteins which are ubiquitous in nature. In plants, they are distributed in various families and hence ingested daily in appreciable amounts by both humans and animals. One of the most nutritionally important features of plant lectins is their ability to survive digestion by the gastrointestinal tract of consumers. This allows the lectins to bind to membrane glycosyl groups of the cells lining the digestive tract. As a result of this interaction a series of harmful local and systemic reactions are triggered placing this class of molecules as antinutritive and/or toxic substances. Locally, they can affect the turnover and loss of gut epithelial cells, damage the luminal membranes of the epithelium, interfere with nutrient digestion and absorption, stimulate shifts in the bacterial flora and modulate the immune state of the digestive tract. Systemically, they can disrupt lipid, carbohydrate and protein metabolism, promote enlargement and/or atrophy of key internal organs and tissues and alter the hormonal and immunological status. At high intakes, lectins can seriously threaten the growth and health of consuming animals. They are also detrimental to numerous insect pests of crop plants although less is presently known about their insecticidal mechanisms of action. This current review surveys the recent knowledge on the antinutritional/toxic effects of plant lectins on higher animals and insects. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15302522/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15302522/ It appears that lectins are degraded by heat, thus the importance of proper cooking.

chomp 4y ago
Hmm, lectins don't typically affect the liver to this degree though... I know they said their toxicology came back negative, but this sounds like toxin contamination of some sort.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  At least for those who had their gallbladders removed for gallstones, it's more likely this meal happened to trigger a gallbladder attack (whether from the lentils or something else in it). The lentils being undercooked could have triggered gastrointestinal issues in the other people, and maybe some of the ones with gallstones whose gallstones and gallbladder issues were then discovered by coincidence.
  - UncleOxidant 4y ago
    Yeah, the gallbladder removal part seems odd to me as well. I had gallbladder trouble a few years back and an ultrasound showed that I had a stone. Surgeon wanted to remove my gallbladder, but I found that moving to a vegan diet completely ameliorated the symptoms so I did not have the surgery done. When researching this I found that many people are found to have gallstones in the course of imaging for other issues and they often never have had any gallbladder pain or issues. The conclusion was that the presence of gallstones does not in itself indicate gallbladder removal. As you're saying, I suspect that the docs were having trouble figuring out what was wrong, noticed there were gallstones present and decided to remove the gallbladder to see if that would help.
  - pdevr 4y ago
    This is a possibility. The mere existence of gallstones does not necessitate the removal of gallstones[1]. In this case, it is likely the pain, because it was similar to the one experienced with those having gallstone issues, was wrongly linked to the presence of gallstones. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gallstones/symptoms-causes/syc-20354214 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gallstones/sy...
- elliekelly 4y ago
  I know nothing at all about the chemistry or nutritional aspects but I do cook my own dog food and know that many canine nutritionists are recommending <10% of a dog’s daily calories come from legumes because of a (still, I believe, poorly understood) link to heart issues: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisories/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisori... My understanding was that initially most vets assumed it was the “grain free” thing causing a problem but then it was discovered that the heart issues have only been associated with certain grain free brands. I can’t help but wonder if it’s something to do with both the volume of lentils in the brand recipes and also how the brands are preparing their lentils.
PeterHolzwarth 4y ago
Yes, many common types of beans are toxic. But, as you note, the thread is dealt with via boiling. We are typically so habitual in boiling (and often pre-soaking larger) beans that their toxicity - some of them rather spectacularly so - that most people are entirely aware of the fact.
- atwood22 4y ago
  Yea, I had no idea. The other day, I soaked dried chickpeas overnight to use for dinner the next evening and munched on the soaked beans throughout the day. TIL...
- sergiotapia 4y ago
  Latino here I eat a lot of beans and lentejas, I had no idea they were toxic. My mom and wife boil them and serve them like that. I guess if you eat them raw, they are very dangerous?
  - rayiner 4y ago
    I’m from a lentil eating country and I had no idea they were toxic either. But we do boil the shit out of them.
ribosometronome 4y ago
>She says she sautéed the lentils until they started to crisp and even blacken a bit because she knows they need to be cooked thoroughly. Is an interesting way to describe cooking lentils, too. I can imagine sautéing ones that are already cooked. Or you can put them in a pan with water for awhile, but that's gonna be 20-40 minutes, is pan-boiling a term? Not really sautéing.
- andybak 4y ago
  > is pan-boiling a term? Confused. What else would you boil them in? (Brit here so maybe there's a language difference at play)
  - roykanesmith37 4y ago
    In my eyes (I live in the US) “boiling” seems to only refer to boiling something in a pot. Like boil a pot of water (cause it to reach boiling point and bubble) then put in noodles.
  - tedivm 4y ago
    A Pot. Pots are tall and are used for boiling, pans are low and used for sauteing.
  - zdragnar 4y ago
    A pot is used for boiling water, or cooking stews and soups. They typically have two small handles on each side. A pan has short, usually curved sides, and is suitable for simmering small amounts of liquid, searing or frying. It will almost always have a single long handle. Woks are the exception- the look halfway in-between a pot and a pan, though the design is more geared towards the same uses you would use a pan for. Although there are two small handled varieties, the thinness of the metal makes it much less effective at stews and soups because it doesn't hold heat well.
    - thehours 4y ago
      Saucepans are somewhere in the middle. "Saucepans are round, vertical-walled vessels used for simmering or boiling. Saucepans generally have one long handle. Larger pans of similar shape with two ear handles are sometimes called "sauce-pots" or "soup pots" (3–12 litres)." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookware_and_bakeware https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookware_and_bakeware
philip1209 4y ago
[hypothesis] Pre-cooked lentils typically are canned, and the canning process ostensibly includes enough heat + pressure to denature dangerous lectins. So, consumers aren't used to thinking of pre-cooked lentils as dangerous. Consumer cooking equipment makes it hard to cook lentils without reaching a boiling temperature that denatures lectins. Think an instant pot, or even a stovetop cooking method. But, browse slow cooking subreddits and you'll see many warnings that beans shouldn't be cooked in a slow cooker without achieving a full boil for some period of time due to lectins. It seems to me like these dangerous lentils were prepared in a slow-cooking method that never reached a boil. And, any food facility that routinely works with beans or lentils should already know the dangers of lectins. So, it seems that the food production facility wasn't used to cooking with these ingredients.
bsder 4y ago
Careful. Lectins are the "Compound du jour" of the fad diet crowd. Lectins are in practically everything that we eat. If it were just lectins, it would be a lot more people than this. This is likely contamination of some form.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  I've heard of food poisoning before, but not too many cases of people losing organs over it. At any rate, lectins (and other antinutrients) are evolutionary defense mechanisms (poison) to prevent insects from devouring plants wholesale. When they become a large percentage of your own diet, you'll probably experience digestion issues and inflammation as well.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
UncleOxidant 4y ago
But it sounds like she did cook them enough to have destroyed the lectins. We used to eat raw sprouted lentils fairly regularly in the 70s/80s with no ill effects, so unless sprouting reduces the lectins, I doubt that's what the problem was. EDIT: I just googled for "does sprouting lentils remove lectins" and got all sorts of conflicting information. Some sites say yes, other say no.
- t_mann 4y ago
  What I heard is that the sprouts can contain high concentrations of nasty stuff, I'd always assumed that those were created during the sprouting, that might be something different as well, should probably check. But I think the consensus is that if you fry sprouts just the right amount (to denature the toxins but not the other nutrients) they're a lot healthier than cooked beans, otherwise they may contain toxins (or not many nutrients at all). It was never a gamble I felt comfortable making, so I sort of abstained from them.
christkv 4y ago
I imagine pressure cookers are great to break down lectins.
- woofyman 4y ago
  Lentils cook in 6 minutes. Chickpeas take 60 minutes.
WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
I've eaten beans all my life and had no clue. FYI, the green sprouts in raw potatoes are toxic too. According to healthline.com: "Sprouted potatoes contain higher levels of glycoalkaloids, which can have toxic effects in humans when consumed in excess. Eating sprouted potatoes during pregnancy may also increase the risk of birth defects." https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sprouted-potato#dangers https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sprouted-potato#dangers
- FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
  In addition, eating a diet that primarily consists of chickpeas can cause a non-reversible neurological disease... usually not seen except during famines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolathyrism
  - nyanpasu64 4y ago
    You had me scared for a moment. As far as I can tell, neurolathyrism is caused by plants of genus Lathyrus, which is different from (though the same family as) actual chickpeas of genus Cicer. I sure hope real chickpeas don't cause neural damage.
  - jkqwzsoo 4y ago
    Incorrect. It's chickling peas, not chickpeas, that cause illness. Chickpeas are fine to eat, as evidenced by the billion+ people who are eating them every day, particularly in the subcontinent.
    - WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
      Had no clue there are 2 similar sounding peas. Anyway, I found this for chickling peas (aka grass peas and cicerchia ): https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-69083-9_33 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-69083-9_... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/07/why-do-poisonous-beans-have-to-taste-so-good/60033/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/07/why-do-po...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lotsofpulp 4y ago
>It appears that lectins are degraded by heat, thus the importance of proper cooking. I (and family members) have eaten copious amounts of sprouted moong and moth beans my whole life without cooking them. Just soak them in water for a night, then leave them alone to sprout for another day or two, and then eat them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna_aconitifolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna_aconitifolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mung_bean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mung_bean
- blacksmith_tb 4y ago
  Sprouting also deals with the lectins[1], so I think that should be fine. 1: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/lectins/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/...
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    Interesting, thanks for the link!
t_mann 4y ago
Thanks for sharing! I love making lentils - never had any problems, but that sounds scary. I suppose soaking them won't help with the denaturation?
- pdevr 4y ago
  Once the toxins appear, it is difficult to get rid of them. If not (which is what is true in most cases), soaking them and then using enough heat for enough time should be enough.

chomp 4y ago

Hmm, lectins don't typically affect the liver to this degree though... I know they said their toxicology came back negative, but this sounds like toxin contamination of some sort.

Jtsummers 4y ago
At least for those who had their gallbladders removed for gallstones, it's more likely this meal happened to trigger a gallbladder attack (whether from the lentils or something else in it). The lentils being undercooked could have triggered gastrointestinal issues in the other people, and maybe some of the ones with gallstones whose gallstones and gallbladder issues were then discovered by coincidence.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago
  Yeah, the gallbladder removal part seems odd to me as well. I had gallbladder trouble a few years back and an ultrasound showed that I had a stone. Surgeon wanted to remove my gallbladder, but I found that moving to a vegan diet completely ameliorated the symptoms so I did not have the surgery done. When researching this I found that many people are found to have gallstones in the course of imaging for other issues and they often never have had any gallbladder pain or issues. The conclusion was that the presence of gallstones does not in itself indicate gallbladder removal. As you're saying, I suspect that the docs were having trouble figuring out what was wrong, noticed there were gallstones present and decided to remove the gallbladder to see if that would help.
- pdevr 4y ago
  This is a possibility. The mere existence of gallstones does not necessitate the removal of gallstones[1]. In this case, it is likely the pain, because it was similar to the one experienced with those having gallstone issues, was wrongly linked to the presence of gallstones. [1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gallstones/symptoms-causes/syc-20354214 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gallstones/sy...
elliekelly 4y ago
I know nothing at all about the chemistry or nutritional aspects but I do cook my own dog food and know that many canine nutritionists are recommending <10% of a dog’s daily calories come from legumes because of a (still, I believe, poorly understood) link to heart issues: https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisories/fda-investigation-potential-link-between-certain-diets-and-canine-dilated-cardiomyopathy https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/outbreaks-and-advisori... My understanding was that initially most vets assumed it was the “grain free” thing causing a problem but then it was discovered that the heart issues have only been associated with certain grain free brands. I can’t help but wonder if it’s something to do with both the volume of lentils in the brand recipes and also how the brands are preparing their lentils.

PeterHolzwarth 4y ago

Yes, many common types of beans are toxic. But, as you note, the thread is dealt with via boiling. We are typically so habitual in boiling (and often pre-soaking larger) beans that their toxicity - some of them rather spectacularly so - that most people are entirely aware of the fact.

atwood22 4y ago
Yea, I had no idea. The other day, I soaked dried chickpeas overnight to use for dinner the next evening and munched on the soaked beans throughout the day. TIL...
sergiotapia 4y ago
Latino here I eat a lot of beans and lentejas, I had no idea they were toxic. My mom and wife boil them and serve them like that. I guess if you eat them raw, they are very dangerous?
- rayiner 4y ago
  I’m from a lentil eating country and I had no idea they were toxic either. But we do boil the shit out of them.

ribosometronome 4y ago

>She says she sautéed the lentils until they started to crisp and even blacken a bit because she knows they need to be cooked thoroughly. Is an interesting way to describe cooking lentils, too. I can imagine sautéing ones that are already cooked. Or you can put them in a pan with water for awhile, but that's gonna be 20-40 minutes, is pan-boiling a term? Not really sautéing.

andybak 4y ago
> is pan-boiling a term? Confused. What else would you boil them in? (Brit here so maybe there's a language difference at play)
- roykanesmith37 4y ago
  In my eyes (I live in the US) “boiling” seems to only refer to boiling something in a pot. Like boil a pot of water (cause it to reach boiling point and bubble) then put in noodles.
- tedivm 4y ago
  A Pot. Pots are tall and are used for boiling, pans are low and used for sauteing.
- zdragnar 4y ago
  A pot is used for boiling water, or cooking stews and soups. They typically have two small handles on each side. A pan has short, usually curved sides, and is suitable for simmering small amounts of liquid, searing or frying. It will almost always have a single long handle. Woks are the exception- the look halfway in-between a pot and a pan, though the design is more geared towards the same uses you would use a pan for. Although there are two small handled varieties, the thinness of the metal makes it much less effective at stews and soups because it doesn't hold heat well.
  - thehours 4y ago
    Saucepans are somewhere in the middle. "Saucepans are round, vertical-walled vessels used for simmering or boiling. Saucepans generally have one long handle. Larger pans of similar shape with two ear handles are sometimes called "sauce-pots" or "soup pots" (3–12 litres)." [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookware_and_bakeware https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cookware_and_bakeware

philip1209 4y ago

[hypothesis] Pre-cooked lentils typically are canned, and the canning process ostensibly includes enough heat + pressure to denature dangerous lectins. So, consumers aren't used to thinking of pre-cooked lentils as dangerous. Consumer cooking equipment makes it hard to cook lentils without reaching a boiling temperature that denatures lectins. Think an instant pot, or even a stovetop cooking method. But, browse slow cooking subreddits and you'll see many warnings that beans shouldn't be cooked in a slow cooker without achieving a full boil for some period of time due to lectins. It seems to me like these dangerous lentils were prepared in a slow-cooking method that never reached a boil. And, any food facility that routinely works with beans or lentils should already know the dangers of lectins. So, it seems that the food production facility wasn't used to cooking with these ingredients.

bsder 4y ago

Careful. Lectins are the "Compound du jour" of the fad diet crowd. Lectins are in practically everything that we eat. If it were just lectins, it would be a lot more people than this. This is likely contamination of some form.

chrisco255 4y ago
I've heard of food poisoning before, but not too many cases of people losing organs over it. At any rate, lectins (and other antinutrients) are evolutionary defense mechanisms (poison) to prevent insects from devouring plants wholesale. When they become a large percentage of your own diet, you'll probably experience digestion issues and inflammation as well.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

UncleOxidant 4y ago

But it sounds like she did cook them enough to have destroyed the lectins. We used to eat raw sprouted lentils fairly regularly in the 70s/80s with no ill effects, so unless sprouting reduces the lectins, I doubt that's what the problem was. EDIT: I just googled for "does sprouting lentils remove lectins" and got all sorts of conflicting information. Some sites say yes, other say no.

t_mann 4y ago
What I heard is that the sprouts can contain high concentrations of nasty stuff, I'd always assumed that those were created during the sprouting, that might be something different as well, should probably check. But I think the consensus is that if you fry sprouts just the right amount (to denature the toxins but not the other nutrients) they're a lot healthier than cooked beans, otherwise they may contain toxins (or not many nutrients at all). It was never a gamble I felt comfortable making, so I sort of abstained from them.

christkv 4y ago

I imagine pressure cookers are great to break down lectins.

woofyman 4y ago
Lentils cook in 6 minutes. Chickpeas take 60 minutes.

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

I've eaten beans all my life and had no clue. FYI, the green sprouts in raw potatoes are toxic too. According to healthline.com: "Sprouted potatoes contain higher levels of glycoalkaloids, which can have toxic effects in humans when consumed in excess. Eating sprouted potatoes during pregnancy may also increase the risk of birth defects." https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sprouted-potato#dangers https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sprouted-potato#dangers

FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
In addition, eating a diet that primarily consists of chickpeas can cause a non-reversible neurological disease... usually not seen except during famines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolathyrism
- nyanpasu64 4y ago
  You had me scared for a moment. As far as I can tell, neurolathyrism is caused by plants of genus Lathyrus, which is different from (though the same family as) actual chickpeas of genus Cicer. I sure hope real chickpeas don't cause neural damage.
- jkqwzsoo 4y ago
  Incorrect. It's chickling peas, not chickpeas, that cause illness. Chickpeas are fine to eat, as evidenced by the billion+ people who are eating them every day, particularly in the subcontinent.
  - WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
    Had no clue there are 2 similar sounding peas. Anyway, I found this for chickling peas (aka grass peas and cicerchia ): https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-69083-9_33 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-69083-9_... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/07/why-do-poisonous-beans-have-to-taste-so-good/60033/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2010/07/why-do-po...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lotsofpulp 4y ago

>It appears that lectins are degraded by heat, thus the importance of proper cooking. I (and family members) have eaten copious amounts of sprouted moong and moth beans my whole life without cooking them. Just soak them in water for a night, then leave them alone to sprout for another day or two, and then eat them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna_aconitifolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigna_aconitifolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mung_bean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mung_bean

blacksmith_tb 4y ago
Sprouting also deals with the lectins[1], so I think that should be fine. 1: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/lectins/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/anti-nutrients/...
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  Interesting, thanks for the link!

t_mann 4y ago

Thanks for sharing! I love making lentils - never had any problems, but that sounds scary. I suppose soaking them won't help with the denaturation?

pdevr 4y ago
Once the toxins appear, it is difficult to get rid of them. If not (which is what is true in most cases), soaking them and then using enough heat for enough time should be enough.