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Socialization. Going to school is not only about absorbing academical knowledge. It's about interacting with a broader group of people, learning how to behave,

Socialization. Going to school is not only about absorbing academical knowledge. It's about interacting with a broader group of people, learning how to behave, how to avoid common problems, etc. I would not be able to provide this to my kids. On top of that, the language we speak at home is not the language used by the school, or the rest of the country. There are a million problems that come with this: they would force us to use our language, which they're more comfortable with, they would be learning our broken accents, we're not super familiar with the local language so our ability to teach it would be worse, etc, etc.

unity1001 4y ago
This. Not only what you said, but also even being the part of a certain generation as that generation grows up and creates a shared culture enables one to socialize much later. Having played similar games that a generation played, having listened to same songs, having played with the same toys etc.
Turing_Machine 4y ago
> It's about interacting with a broader group of people A cohort within 12 months in age, typically from the same neighborhood, is not a "broader group of people".
- verisimilidude 4y ago
  It's much broader than none.
  - Turing_Machine 4y ago
    Because home schooled children never see anyone else at all? I think you'll find that is not actually the case. Also, I would argue that the distorted "society" produced by public schools is more harmful than beneficial.
    - verisimilidude 4y ago
      Tell us where homeschooled kids get their socialization. Church? That's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to social distortion. Homeschooled peer groups? There's no way that's a broader population than the school in 99.9% of homeschooling scenarios.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        I can answer this. Being from a non-religious family, it was the latter. Peer groups. I can’t speak for everywhere or every time, but in the 90s in my city, those groups were diverse in some dimensions (age, economic, political beliefs, homeschooling method, schooling exposure, weird parents) and un-diverse in some dimensions (race, immigrants and 1st generation children of immigrants). It’s important to note that I don’t think every school would get a checkmark on all of those boxes either. But where it differs the most would probably be numbers. Small schools exist in rural settings, but a peer group of 40 kids only about 5-10 of similar age to you is pretty different from most people’s school experience.
      - voisin 4y ago
        Swim lessons, camp, girl guides, soccer, art class, music lessons, part time jobs, church, etc etc etc etc etc. are you really so unimaginative as to believe that only school provides access to non-family members? Give your head a shake.
        verisimilidude 4y ago
        Swim lessons? Get out of here. Church? I did imagine that. Try reading. And anyway, schooled kids do all of those things as well. Where's the advantage? There's a reason I don't consider those activities when talking about school socialization. All of the activities you mentioned are part-time and/or self-selected. School is full-time and you don't get to choose your kids' peers. You can't pull them out easily if you don't like the other kids. Like the rest of the world, kids will need to learn how to deal with it, away from you, all day, every day. They will need to learn how to deal with bullies and spurned crushes and tribal politics and bad teachers and all the rest. And yes, that can be harsh. Yes, some kids will have a difficult time. Most will learn invaluable social skills about how to integrate themselves into society, and they will be practicing those social skills full-time at school.
voisin 4y ago
Socialization is important, on that we agree. Socialization at school is not always positive or even effective. There are many ways to socialize and jamming people of the same age in a room for 6-7 hours at a time is far less effective, in my opinion, than being part of extracurricular programs, clubs, etc that often mingle kids of different ages, backgrounds, neighbourhoods, and cultures far better than any school. I found that school is an effective way for people to be pigeonholed with labels and expectations that make it more difficult for people to explore and change. Once labelled the class clown, or the athlete, or the brainiac, or whatever, it is very hard to do or try other things so long as you are in a fixed environment. This is why, in my opinion, going to college or university is such a profound life event for people - suddenly new environments and opportunities to explore being something other than your fixed adolescent self.
- VictorPath 4y ago
  > jamming people of the same age in a room for 6-7 hours at a time is far less effective... This may be true, if one is raising a philosopher-king or something. In life I'm thrown into situations where I'm jammed together with people in an "ineffective" manner all the time. If extra-curricular programs are more effective they can deal with both environments. Personally I had some effective, good teachers in school as well as some ineffective team coaches.
  - xpe 4y ago
    It is notable that educational systems can both prepare people for later life situations (generally considered good) and mold them to accept suboptimal patterns that we'd rather move past.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  I don’t really agree. An important part of school is learning to overcome obstacles. Forcing the children to be together for 6 hours everyday inevitably leads to conflict that needs to be resolved. Just doing extracurriculars doesn’t give children the multi year time horizon they need to truly bond with their peers, and they can convince their parents to let them do something else if they don’t like the kids. Dealing with people you don’t get along with is an extremely important skill.
colinmhayes 4y ago
I would go further. Education is a secondary concern for grade school children. The main point of elementary school is 1. Figuring how to socialize/interact with peers 2. Starting to prepare children for responsibilities/solving problems without parental guidance. Education is important, but it’s mainly a way to give children these skills.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

unity1001 4y ago

This. Not only what you said, but also even being the part of a certain generation as that generation grows up and creates a shared culture enables one to socialize much later. Having played similar games that a generation played, having listened to same songs, having played with the same toys etc.

Turing_Machine 4y ago

> It's about interacting with a broader group of people A cohort within 12 months in age, typically from the same neighborhood, is not a "broader group of people".

verisimilidude 4y ago
It's much broader than none.
- Turing_Machine 4y ago
  Because home schooled children never see anyone else at all? I think you'll find that is not actually the case. Also, I would argue that the distorted "society" produced by public schools is more harmful than beneficial.
  - verisimilidude 4y ago
    Tell us where homeschooled kids get their socialization. Church? That's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to social distortion. Homeschooled peer groups? There's no way that's a broader population than the school in 99.9% of homeschooling scenarios.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      I can answer this. Being from a non-religious family, it was the latter. Peer groups. I can’t speak for everywhere or every time, but in the 90s in my city, those groups were diverse in some dimensions (age, economic, political beliefs, homeschooling method, schooling exposure, weird parents) and un-diverse in some dimensions (race, immigrants and 1st generation children of immigrants). It’s important to note that I don’t think every school would get a checkmark on all of those boxes either. But where it differs the most would probably be numbers. Small schools exist in rural settings, but a peer group of 40 kids only about 5-10 of similar age to you is pretty different from most people’s school experience.
    - voisin 4y ago
      Swim lessons, camp, girl guides, soccer, art class, music lessons, part time jobs, church, etc etc etc etc etc. are you really so unimaginative as to believe that only school provides access to non-family members? Give your head a shake.
      - verisimilidude 4y ago
        Swim lessons? Get out of here. Church? I did imagine that. Try reading. And anyway, schooled kids do all of those things as well. Where's the advantage? There's a reason I don't consider those activities when talking about school socialization. All of the activities you mentioned are part-time and/or self-selected. School is full-time and you don't get to choose your kids' peers. You can't pull them out easily if you don't like the other kids. Like the rest of the world, kids will need to learn how to deal with it, away from you, all day, every day. They will need to learn how to deal with bullies and spurned crushes and tribal politics and bad teachers and all the rest. And yes, that can be harsh. Yes, some kids will have a difficult time. Most will learn invaluable social skills about how to integrate themselves into society, and they will be practicing those social skills full-time at school.

voisin 4y ago

Socialization is important, on that we agree. Socialization at school is not always positive or even effective. There are many ways to socialize and jamming people of the same age in a room for 6-7 hours at a time is far less effective, in my opinion, than being part of extracurricular programs, clubs, etc that often mingle kids of different ages, backgrounds, neighbourhoods, and cultures far better than any school. I found that school is an effective way for people to be pigeonholed with labels and expectations that make it more difficult for people to explore and change. Once labelled the class clown, or the athlete, or the brainiac, or whatever, it is very hard to do or try other things so long as you are in a fixed environment. This is why, in my opinion, going to college or university is such a profound life event for people - suddenly new environments and opportunities to explore being something other than your fixed adolescent self.

VictorPath 4y ago
> jamming people of the same age in a room for 6-7 hours at a time is far less effective... This may be true, if one is raising a philosopher-king or something. In life I'm thrown into situations where I'm jammed together with people in an "ineffective" manner all the time. If extra-curricular programs are more effective they can deal with both environments. Personally I had some effective, good teachers in school as well as some ineffective team coaches.
- xpe 4y ago
  It is notable that educational systems can both prepare people for later life situations (generally considered good) and mold them to accept suboptimal patterns that we'd rather move past.
colinmhayes 4y ago
I don’t really agree. An important part of school is learning to overcome obstacles. Forcing the children to be together for 6 hours everyday inevitably leads to conflict that needs to be resolved. Just doing extracurriculars doesn’t give children the multi year time horizon they need to truly bond with their peers, and they can convince their parents to let them do something else if they don’t like the kids. Dealing with people you don’t get along with is an extremely important skill.

colinmhayes 4y ago

I would go further. Education is a secondary concern for grade school children. The main point of elementary school is 1. Figuring how to socialize/interact with peers 2. Starting to prepare children for responsibilities/solving problems without parental guidance. Education is important, but it’s mainly a way to give children these skills.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]