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I think this is a very low effort dismissal. If you're american, do you feel like your everyday experience is a police state? we imprison FAR more people, so i

I think this is a very low effort dismissal. If you're american, do you feel like your everyday experience is a police state? we imprison FAR more people, so i think the whataboutism criticism has some merit but it has to be acknowledged what the baseline is right? Just talking about a single country and single metric without being allowed to refer to comparisons is just a shallow or useless conversation right? how would you prefer the people you're accusing of whataboutism discuss the issue? do you have a better idea?

johnisgood 4y ago
> do you feel like your everyday experience is a police state? As an European, I do feel scared in the US. Sickos carry a gun, and that includes the cops. They perceive you to be doing something bad, you may resist out of reflex because you know you are innocent, and it can end up pretty badly for you. No thanks. I would rather stay here where we had perhaps 40 murders per year, and have not seen a cop use a gun ever, not even on me while I was resisting arrest. I would probably be dead if this were to happen in the US. You know what is sad? When family members call the cops on their family members because they are mentally sick, probably having a psychosis. Cops do not know how to handle it. It usually ends up with the mentally ill person's death. Why is the US so eager to use the gun then ask later? How is it possible that here in Europe cops can handle mentally sick people without killing them? At any rate, I will never set foot in the US. (It is just my own opinion. My own fears, be it rational or irrational.)
- throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
  Last time i was in Paris there were (what looked like) armed military on patrol through a park with long rifles. There was an major event in the country at the time but nothing going on in park that day. I'm not sure the military would ever fulfill that role in America outside of a federal or state declared emergency (maybe I'm wrong there). But in general, that's a role the police would be required to fulfill. You can setup a different kind of police force if you're willing to call in the military to patrol your own citizens on a regular basis. I've been curious if this is something that's typical in Europe/France? Or maybe they weren't military but national police force. Personally I'd rather have armed police officers that, in theory, live in the area than having national security that could literally be flying in from 1000's of miles away.
  - concinds 4y ago
    Re: France: They are military, and they've been patrolling the streets for years (10k soldiers). The stated aim is to help people feel safer from terrorism, and dissuade attackers.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - johnisgood 4y ago
    I did not talk about Western Europe, sorry. I do not know much about that region. That said, we had military personnel here around Central-Eastern Europe during COVID-19, mostly assisting at the hospitals. That is all. It is their job. They do not want to be there either, but they had to. They are humans, too. They do not stand in your way at any point. Perhaps if you threaten to kill people or something, but they are not going to shoot you, at least that is definitely the least likely option in their mind, they do not want to do that. There were not any conflict during that time either, for the record. Everyone was minding their own business. I do not fear military personnel either. I do think it was unnecessary, but perhaps they knew that we lacked the hospital workers who could assist with testing and so forth. They were not there to intimidate you and they never had the intention of harming you in any way. I know this because I have talked to many of them, and I have a family remember who worked for them, too. I do not fear the cops, either. I do fear the guards once you are in prison, but that is a different story. That said, I have seen inmates and cops having nice conversations with lots of laughter. They have to pass the time somehow, and humor is usually their tool to do that. They know the system is fucked anyways. Maybe this is possible because our society is relatively stable. 40 murders per year in a large enough country is almost nothing, I would say. What gives this cohesion? Cultural differences? By the way, we are known to be hating each other and especially each other's success, yet... I would say that even thievery is uncommon around here, whatever the reason is. They usually do not get away with it anyway. There are at least 15 people who are currently on the run for thievery. That is a negligible amount. With the help of people, I believe they will find them, especially if the thieves are going to keep doing what they are doing.
- monetus 4y ago
  Where do you live and what is the political influence of your police? Be mindful of hyperbolic reporting, but definitely avoid interacting with our police. Chiefs of police, sheriffs, prosecutors - they run for office, get more funding, have more guanxi, and win at a higher than average rate. This ends up with entrenched systems of cronyism with those consequences. Sometimes the entirety of smaller municipalities are funded by traffic violations and the like. These things are super regional though. The nationwide police union is shameful.
  - johnisgood 4y ago
    Please read my other comment to another person, I should not repeat it. I hope that helps. The things you described does not really happen here, or not that I know. They are trying to waste less time with minor crimes. It takes a lot of time and money for them and they are not eager to ruin people's lives either. They know they will not get rehabilitated in prison. You can interact with police here just like with any other person, just do not keep them up if they are doing something. I had some discussions with a lot of them. My teacher used to be a chief of police. He is a very humble and nice person. I love him. I am not trying to say everything is nice and dandy here, a lot of things suck in this area, but I definitely do not have to fear for my life for being shot for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, like one of my friends was. They did not shoot him, they talked to him, and let him go after a while, and he is a gypsy. They are known to be treated poorly. He could have easily have gone to prison if anyone wanted that to happen. He was running away from a place where someone committed a crime. As I said, it is not in their economic interest I would say. I may be wrong, but it does not seem to be trendy to just unnecessarily kill or imprison people.
    - monetus 4y ago
      Thanks for the response. What you describe is the common interaction with police here too. The danger is in how things escalate with them. Most police try to avoid minor crimes here too, depending on the region. I have a lot of anecdotes of this. It is a diffuse set of systems, both hiding and amplifying the ill aspects and horrors of themselves. Google a forum to find or ask the populaces about police traps if you are worried and ever here.

johnisgood 4y ago

> do you feel like your everyday experience is a police state? As an European, I do feel scared in the US. Sickos carry a gun, and that includes the cops. They perceive you to be doing something bad, you may resist out of reflex because you know you are innocent, and it can end up pretty badly for you. No thanks. I would rather stay here where we had perhaps 40 murders per year, and have not seen a cop use a gun ever, not even on me while I was resisting arrest. I would probably be dead if this were to happen in the US. You know what is sad? When family members call the cops on their family members because they are mentally sick, probably having a psychosis. Cops do not know how to handle it. It usually ends up with the mentally ill person's death. Why is the US so eager to use the gun then ask later? How is it possible that here in Europe cops can handle mentally sick people without killing them? At any rate, I will never set foot in the US. (It is just my own opinion. My own fears, be it rational or irrational.)

throw_nbvc1234 4y ago
Last time i was in Paris there were (what looked like) armed military on patrol through a park with long rifles. There was an major event in the country at the time but nothing going on in park that day. I'm not sure the military would ever fulfill that role in America outside of a federal or state declared emergency (maybe I'm wrong there). But in general, that's a role the police would be required to fulfill. You can setup a different kind of police force if you're willing to call in the military to patrol your own citizens on a regular basis. I've been curious if this is something that's typical in Europe/France? Or maybe they weren't military but national police force. Personally I'd rather have armed police officers that, in theory, live in the area than having national security that could literally be flying in from 1000's of miles away.
- concinds 4y ago
  Re: France: They are military, and they've been patrolling the streets for years (10k soldiers). The stated aim is to help people feel safer from terrorism, and dissuade attackers.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- johnisgood 4y ago
  I did not talk about Western Europe, sorry. I do not know much about that region. That said, we had military personnel here around Central-Eastern Europe during COVID-19, mostly assisting at the hospitals. That is all. It is their job. They do not want to be there either, but they had to. They are humans, too. They do not stand in your way at any point. Perhaps if you threaten to kill people or something, but they are not going to shoot you, at least that is definitely the least likely option in their mind, they do not want to do that. There were not any conflict during that time either, for the record. Everyone was minding their own business. I do not fear military personnel either. I do think it was unnecessary, but perhaps they knew that we lacked the hospital workers who could assist with testing and so forth. They were not there to intimidate you and they never had the intention of harming you in any way. I know this because I have talked to many of them, and I have a family remember who worked for them, too. I do not fear the cops, either. I do fear the guards once you are in prison, but that is a different story. That said, I have seen inmates and cops having nice conversations with lots of laughter. They have to pass the time somehow, and humor is usually their tool to do that. They know the system is fucked anyways. Maybe this is possible because our society is relatively stable. 40 murders per year in a large enough country is almost nothing, I would say. What gives this cohesion? Cultural differences? By the way, we are known to be hating each other and especially each other's success, yet... I would say that even thievery is uncommon around here, whatever the reason is. They usually do not get away with it anyway. There are at least 15 people who are currently on the run for thievery. That is a negligible amount. With the help of people, I believe they will find them, especially if the thieves are going to keep doing what they are doing.
monetus 4y ago
Where do you live and what is the political influence of your police? Be mindful of hyperbolic reporting, but definitely avoid interacting with our police. Chiefs of police, sheriffs, prosecutors - they run for office, get more funding, have more guanxi, and win at a higher than average rate. This ends up with entrenched systems of cronyism with those consequences. Sometimes the entirety of smaller municipalities are funded by traffic violations and the like. These things are super regional though. The nationwide police union is shameful.
- johnisgood 4y ago
  Please read my other comment to another person, I should not repeat it. I hope that helps. The things you described does not really happen here, or not that I know. They are trying to waste less time with minor crimes. It takes a lot of time and money for them and they are not eager to ruin people's lives either. They know they will not get rehabilitated in prison. You can interact with police here just like with any other person, just do not keep them up if they are doing something. I had some discussions with a lot of them. My teacher used to be a chief of police. He is a very humble and nice person. I love him. I am not trying to say everything is nice and dandy here, a lot of things suck in this area, but I definitely do not have to fear for my life for being shot for being at the wrong place at the wrong time, like one of my friends was. They did not shoot him, they talked to him, and let him go after a while, and he is a gypsy. They are known to be treated poorly. He could have easily have gone to prison if anyone wanted that to happen. He was running away from a place where someone committed a crime. As I said, it is not in their economic interest I would say. I may be wrong, but it does not seem to be trendy to just unnecessarily kill or imprison people.
  - monetus 4y ago
    Thanks for the response. What you describe is the common interaction with police here too. The danger is in how things escalate with them. Most police try to avoid minor crimes here too, depending on the region. I have a lot of anecdotes of this. It is a diffuse set of systems, both hiding and amplifying the ill aspects and horrors of themselves. Google a forum to find or ask the populaces about police traps if you are worried and ever here.