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Absolutely. But also, I have no obligations to like or respect what they do either. I think they're going the wrong way and I can say so. The freedom works bot

by jrm4 4y ago

Absolutely. But also, I have no obligations to like or respect what they do either. I think they're going the wrong way and I can say so. The freedom works both ways, and I don't think we should shield them from criticism.

em-bee 4y ago
i strongly disagree. criticism must be constructive and helpful. and developers absolutely should be shielded from criticism, especially FOSS developers, because if we don't then they will stop sharing. basically, ask yourself: is your response friendly and helpful and likely to motivate the developer to consider your issue, or are you venting your frustration. if it's the latter, then please just don't. see here for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31945618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31945618 i made a similar comment a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31679373 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31679373 users should be free to be critical of it absolutely not. you can say: "unfortunately, i have this problem, so i can't use this, i am going to go use something else". but that's about it. criticism is the bane of our society. criticism hurts peoples feelings. criticism causes burnout. FOSS maintainers are volunteers and absolutely do not deserve that kind of criticism for just developing software. (that doesn't put them above any criticism. if they are rude or mean to their users, then that may well be criticized. but not if they ignore a problem or are unresponsive. they may well have other things in their life that are more important than to care about your software issue) (and if the developer is paid, direct any criticism at the company, but don't beat up the employee who may not have the freedom to choose what issues to work on) Being open source doesn't mean nobody should dare criticise you if you didn't pay for it, it means exactly that.
- jrm4 4y ago
  They effectively made bold claims with their plans and they failed to deliver - in a place in open source that people rely on greatly. If they do this badly, that's a betrayal of trust. That is my view. Now, it's true -- I absolutely have no legal or physical recourse to materially affect them them and because it's open source, I shouldn't. They should never be sued or anything like that. But you can get out of here with the silly idea that it also shields them from me COMMENTING, even HARSHLY. Look, I didn't talk about their mama's, I talked about their product. Your idea that "FOSS developers should be shielded from criticism because they'll stop sharing" is as absurd as "Never boo a musician because THEN THERE WILL BE NO MORE MUSIC."
  - em-bee 4y ago
    you may want to read this article and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31977136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31977136 Why criticism lasts longer than praise (bbc.com)

by jrm4 4y ago

em-bee 4y ago

i strongly disagree. criticism must be constructive and helpful. and developers absolutely should be shielded from criticism, especially FOSS developers, because if we don't then they will stop sharing. basically, ask yourself: is your response friendly and helpful and likely to motivate the developer to consider your issue, or are you venting your frustration. if it's the latter, then please just don't. see here for example: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31945618 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31945618 i made a similar comment a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31679373 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31679373 users should be free to be critical of it absolutely not. you can say: "unfortunately, i have this problem, so i can't use this, i am going to go use something else". but that's about it. criticism is the bane of our society. criticism hurts peoples feelings. criticism causes burnout. FOSS maintainers are volunteers and absolutely do not deserve that kind of criticism for just developing software. (that doesn't put them above any criticism. if they are rude or mean to their users, then that may well be criticized. but not if they ignore a problem or are unresponsive. they may well have other things in their life that are more important than to care about your software issue) (and if the developer is paid, direct any criticism at the company, but don't beat up the employee who may not have the freedom to choose what issues to work on) Being open source doesn't mean nobody should dare criticise you if you didn't pay for it, it means exactly that.

jrm4 4y ago
They effectively made bold claims with their plans and they failed to deliver - in a place in open source that people rely on greatly. If they do this badly, that's a betrayal of trust. That is my view. Now, it's true -- I absolutely have no legal or physical recourse to materially affect them them and because it's open source, I shouldn't. They should never be sued or anything like that. But you can get out of here with the silly idea that it also shields them from me COMMENTING, even HARSHLY. Look, I didn't talk about their mama's, I talked about their product. Your idea that "FOSS developers should be shielded from criticism because they'll stop sharing" is as absurd as "Never boo a musician because THEN THERE WILL BE NO MORE MUSIC."
- em-bee 4y ago
  you may want to read this article and discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31977136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31977136 Why criticism lasts longer than praise (bbc.com)