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End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace.

tablespoon 4y ago
> End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace. ...let the Russian flag fly over the Baltics.
- elbigbad 4y ago
  I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer people doing bad things. So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world, to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in might, to being smacked by the reality again that bad people predictably do bad things, such as russias invasion of ukraine, and it’s good overall that we have this military might, even if not everyone appreciates it.
  - formerkrogemp 4y ago
    Let me fix this for you. > I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer non-American people doing bad things. American hegemony is mostly good for the US. Let's not lie about doing 'good' elsewhere. American actions have destabilized many countries and governments to secure and advance American interests. Have American citizens benefited? Probably. > So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world. Follow that up with generations of overthrowing democratically elected governments and fostering civil wars globally. > to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in might, to being smacked by the reality again that bad people predictably do bad things, such as russias invasion of ukraine. I don't think people want a removal of all naval bases or military presence, just enough to pay for fucking healthcare, teachers, food, bridges, and housing. You know the usual basic necessities for life. I guess killing and maiming people around the world is just easier to do. > it’s good overall that we have this military might, even if not everyone appreciates it. That remains to be seen. Tell me that in a few years when we have more guns than food and water. As always, unless you're colorblind, the world exists in color, not black and white.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - elbigbad 4y ago
      I mean, the comment I was responding to literally said, and I quote, “End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases.” So it does seem to me that at least some people want this.
      - formerkrogemp 4y ago
        > End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. It's a nice sound bite, but it doesn't work that way does it?
- rayiner 4y ago
  Conquest for land happens. California would still be part of Mexico if we hadn’t done the same thing. Why is it our job to stop to history?
  - libertine 4y ago
    I'm not an history expert, but my understanding when the US entered the WWII and pushed hard to change the tide of war, you could say the US won the war - it gave the US a place in the world stage (with it's responsibilities, but also, some perks). Would the US be the country it is nowadays if it didn't join WWII? Probably not, it would be a very different world.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      Russia won the war.
      - xyzzyz 4y ago
        CCCP won the war, using US equipment.
    - hahaitsfunny 4y ago
      The US didn't win WWII - the Soviets did the majority of the dying and fighting. Don't get it twisted.
      - dogma1138 4y ago
        Being worse at it than the rest of the Allies doesn’t make it so that the Soviets won the war. The war for Europe was arguably won in Africa well before any major advances happened in either of the European fronts. The North African campaign combined with the supplies the US has sent to the Soviets was pretty much the only reason why the Soviets have won on the eastern front. The Axis and specifically Germany were over extended in Africa and Africa pretty much took all the fuel and air lift capacity Germany had at the time. The Italian campaign was the nail in the coffin for the Axis in Europe well before D-Day. And that is if we can ignore the pacific theater altogether.
- hereforphone 4y ago
  Allow women in Afghanistan to live under horrible conditions under an oppressive ultra-Islamic regime. Strange how everyone forgot about that one as soon as the yellow/blue flag became a meme.
  - libertine 4y ago
    I don't think it's forgotten, it's just not mentioned as much in the media. You may claim that "if it's not in the media, it as good as forgotten", but I don't agree with that. In fact we keep seeing the outcomes of it still in the media.
    - hereforphone 4y ago
      Do you? Contacts in Afghanistan are sharing videos of people being whipped / beaten in the streets. And it reportedly gets much worse. I haven't seen anything about this mentioned in Western media. This is reminiscent of how war protests in my liberal city stopped suddenly as soon as Obama was elected, and never restarted though he bolstered troop levels (initiated surges). The war was never the main point.
  - rendall 4y ago
    I dunno. The US propped up a government there for a generation and it still failed to launch. Afghans didn't want it. Sometimes, you just have to accept that the best you have to offer isn't wanted or appreciated.
- hitpointdrew 4y ago
  That sounds like the Baltic's problem to solve.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    It's not something they are capable of solving on their own. "End all wars/get rid of the military" rhetoric sounds great, until you realize it's a lie. It just means there will be different wars, perhaps won by the wrong people.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vorpalhex 4y ago
Pop your favorite popcorn and watch genocides occur? "Well but it's not our problem!" is not exactly comfort when a religious or ethnic minority is being erased on live tv.
- ahelwer 4y ago
  Religious or ethnic minorities being erased aren't shown on live TV unless it's happening in or being perpetrated by a state that your government wants to topple.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    The government can't keep their own secrets contained most of the time. They are not controlling the media. That is beyond silly to even suggest.
    - ahelwer 4y ago
      Go watch CNN for an entire day and write down how many times Yemen or Palestine is mentioned compared with Ukraine. Come up with your own hypothesis about why this is. It's more complicated than just "government control", but thankfully people have been thinking about this for a while. You've probably heard of the book Manufacturing Consent which goes into all the structural incentives at play in the media which lead us here.
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        I both read and watch news heavily, including both US news and international outlets. No, that comparison doesn't come up literally ever that I've heard from. I do recall several anti-war pieces in NY Times and others encouraging us to not back Ukraine, the usual war hawk pieces suggesting to escalate, and a bunch of poorly written stories that rehashed weeks old tweets. As the joke goes there are two kinds of people: those who believe in conspiracies and those who have actually interacted with the government. The closest you might get is something like Journolist which was Ezra Klein trying to convince other news heads to parrot his takes - which is a disgrace, but not some secret conspiracy.
af78 4y ago
How do you end a war you did not start? Surrenders have consequences.
mrits 4y ago
If you did that I'd just take over the world myself as soon as you let your guard down.
DennisP 4y ago
What happens next is that history resumes and globalization ends, because it's the US that's been enforcing peaceful globalization since 1945. Borders are no longer sacrosanct, more countries fight each other, a traditional empire or two maybe get started again out of necessity, and countries dependent on imports for oil and food start having major problems. It works out ok for the US though. We get inflation and all kinds of shortages for a while, but manufacturing moves back. We have no trouble feeding and fueling ourselves, and no worries about invasion. In a decade we dominate the world even more, because most of our peers fall apart. But it won't be much fun for a while, and for a lot of the world it'll be seriously grim. I'm not necessarily saying it's the moral obligation of the US to police the world forever, just because it was in our strategic interest to do so for a while. Maybe we should do what you suggest. Just saying, be aware of what it really means. It doesn't mean world peace.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  > Borders are no longer sacrosanct But this is already the case, due to the US-backed push for open borders/open societies, at home and abroad. Just yesterday there was a submission on using media manipulation to subvert politicians that want "sacrosanct borders": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31937756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31937756
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    >> Borders are no longer sacrosanct > But this is already the case, due to the US-backed push for open borders/open societies, at home and abroad. You misunderstand. He was talking about wars of territorial conquest (e.g. moving a border through military means).
    - DennisP 4y ago
      Yes, thank you.

tablespoon 4y ago

> End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. Use the budget to empower the citizens. A well regulated militia of you and I for world peace. ...let the Russian flag fly over the Baltics.

elbigbad 4y ago
I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer people doing bad things. So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world, to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in might, to being smacked by the reality again that bad people predictably do bad things, such as russias invasion of ukraine, and it’s good overall that we have this military might, even if not everyone appreciates it.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  Let me fix this for you. > I think we forget over time and become complacent to the strong possibility that the US maintaining its economic and defense hegemony has generally resulted in fewer non-American people doing bad things. American hegemony is mostly good for the US. Let's not lie about doing 'good' elsewhere. American actions have destabilized many countries and governments to secure and advance American interests. Have American citizens benefited? Probably. > So you go from a generation who used the military might to stop literal Nazis and effectively save the world. Follow that up with generations of overthrowing democratically elected governments and fostering civil wars globally. > to more of a lull where people forget that and start calling for a removal of all foreign bases and a reduction in might, to being smacked by the reality again that bad people predictably do bad things, such as russias invasion of ukraine. I don't think people want a removal of all naval bases or military presence, just enough to pay for fucking healthcare, teachers, food, bridges, and housing. You know the usual basic necessities for life. I guess killing and maiming people around the world is just easier to do. > it’s good overall that we have this military might, even if not everyone appreciates it. That remains to be seen. Tell me that in a few years when we have more guns than food and water. As always, unless you're colorblind, the world exists in color, not black and white.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - elbigbad 4y ago
    I mean, the comment I was responding to literally said, and I quote, “End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases.” So it does seem to me that at least some people want this.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago
      > End all wars. Bring all troops home. Close all foreign bases. It's a nice sound bite, but it doesn't work that way does it?
rayiner 4y ago
Conquest for land happens. California would still be part of Mexico if we hadn’t done the same thing. Why is it our job to stop to history?
- libertine 4y ago
  I'm not an history expert, but my understanding when the US entered the WWII and pushed hard to change the tide of war, you could say the US won the war - it gave the US a place in the world stage (with it's responsibilities, but also, some perks). Would the US be the country it is nowadays if it didn't join WWII? Probably not, it would be a very different world.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Russia won the war.
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      CCCP won the war, using US equipment.
  - hahaitsfunny 4y ago
    The US didn't win WWII - the Soviets did the majority of the dying and fighting. Don't get it twisted.
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      Being worse at it than the rest of the Allies doesn’t make it so that the Soviets won the war. The war for Europe was arguably won in Africa well before any major advances happened in either of the European fronts. The North African campaign combined with the supplies the US has sent to the Soviets was pretty much the only reason why the Soviets have won on the eastern front. The Axis and specifically Germany were over extended in Africa and Africa pretty much took all the fuel and air lift capacity Germany had at the time. The Italian campaign was the nail in the coffin for the Axis in Europe well before D-Day. And that is if we can ignore the pacific theater altogether.
hereforphone 4y ago
Allow women in Afghanistan to live under horrible conditions under an oppressive ultra-Islamic regime. Strange how everyone forgot about that one as soon as the yellow/blue flag became a meme.
- libertine 4y ago
  I don't think it's forgotten, it's just not mentioned as much in the media. You may claim that "if it's not in the media, it as good as forgotten", but I don't agree with that. In fact we keep seeing the outcomes of it still in the media.
  - hereforphone 4y ago
    Do you? Contacts in Afghanistan are sharing videos of people being whipped / beaten in the streets. And it reportedly gets much worse. I haven't seen anything about this mentioned in Western media. This is reminiscent of how war protests in my liberal city stopped suddenly as soon as Obama was elected, and never restarted though he bolstered troop levels (initiated surges). The war was never the main point.
- rendall 4y ago
  I dunno. The US propped up a government there for a generation and it still failed to launch. Afghans didn't want it. Sometimes, you just have to accept that the best you have to offer isn't wanted or appreciated.
hitpointdrew 4y ago
That sounds like the Baltic's problem to solve.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  It's not something they are capable of solving on their own. "End all wars/get rid of the military" rhetoric sounds great, until you realize it's a lie. It just means there will be different wars, perhaps won by the wrong people.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vorpalhex 4y ago

Pop your favorite popcorn and watch genocides occur? "Well but it's not our problem!" is not exactly comfort when a religious or ethnic minority is being erased on live tv.

ahelwer 4y ago
Religious or ethnic minorities being erased aren't shown on live TV unless it's happening in or being perpetrated by a state that your government wants to topple.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  The government can't keep their own secrets contained most of the time. They are not controlling the media. That is beyond silly to even suggest.
  - ahelwer 4y ago
    Go watch CNN for an entire day and write down how many times Yemen or Palestine is mentioned compared with Ukraine. Come up with your own hypothesis about why this is. It's more complicated than just "government control", but thankfully people have been thinking about this for a while. You've probably heard of the book Manufacturing Consent which goes into all the structural incentives at play in the media which lead us here.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      I both read and watch news heavily, including both US news and international outlets. No, that comparison doesn't come up literally ever that I've heard from. I do recall several anti-war pieces in NY Times and others encouraging us to not back Ukraine, the usual war hawk pieces suggesting to escalate, and a bunch of poorly written stories that rehashed weeks old tweets. As the joke goes there are two kinds of people: those who believe in conspiracies and those who have actually interacted with the government. The closest you might get is something like Journolist which was Ezra Klein trying to convince other news heads to parrot his takes - which is a disgrace, but not some secret conspiracy.

af78 4y ago

How do you end a war you did not start? Surrenders have consequences.

mrits 4y ago

If you did that I'd just take over the world myself as soon as you let your guard down.

DennisP 4y ago

What happens next is that history resumes and globalization ends, because it's the US that's been enforcing peaceful globalization since 1945. Borders are no longer sacrosanct, more countries fight each other, a traditional empire or two maybe get started again out of necessity, and countries dependent on imports for oil and food start having major problems. It works out ok for the US though. We get inflation and all kinds of shortages for a while, but manufacturing moves back. We have no trouble feeding and fueling ourselves, and no worries about invasion. In a decade we dominate the world even more, because most of our peers fall apart. But it won't be much fun for a while, and for a lot of the world it'll be seriously grim. I'm not necessarily saying it's the moral obligation of the US to police the world forever, just because it was in our strategic interest to do so for a while. Maybe we should do what you suggest. Just saying, be aware of what it really means. It doesn't mean world peace.

car_analogy 4y ago
> Borders are no longer sacrosanct But this is already the case, due to the US-backed push for open borders/open societies, at home and abroad. Just yesterday there was a submission on using media manipulation to subvert politicians that want "sacrosanct borders": https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31937756 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31937756
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> Borders are no longer sacrosanct > But this is already the case, due to the US-backed push for open borders/open societies, at home and abroad. You misunderstand. He was talking about wars of territorial conquest (e.g. moving a border through military means).
  - DennisP 4y ago
    Yes, thank you.