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Is "I think it is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity" different from "I think it should die"?

jsnell 4y ago
Yes, it is completely different, as explained in that comment. Glad we've sorted this out, I trust that you'll stop making this claim in the future.
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  Agree to disagree. An author saying that proves the bias and the attack angle.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    It doesn't. But there's a more important point: you're paraphrasing somebody you clearly have a great deal of personal animosity toward, completely changing the meaning in the process, and with no indication that this is what's happening. You've continued doing that even when it's pointed out to you. There are two options I can see: - You genuinely are not fluent enough in the language to either understand the original statement, or to write a fair paraphrase, and are not willing to believe this mistake. - You know exactly what you're doing. That is, if you gave the actual quote, nobody would for a moment take it as a proof of your conspiracy claims. Neither of the above is acting in good faith. I'd ask again whether you'll stop lying about what Xe said, but at this point the answer feels pretty obvious...
- Tozen 4y ago
  I disagree with you as well. Clearly the blog creator is hoping for V's death, for whatever hidden intentions that they have.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    We cannot know what the blog author was hoping for, we can only know what they wrote. And what they wrote is not anywhere near what amedvednikov repeatedly claims. Why are you ok with such blatant misrepresntation? If this conspiracy actually exists, isn't there some evidence that actually stands on its own rather than needing to be lied about?
bmacho 4y ago
> There actually is such a conspiracy. People who wrote these articles literally wrote they wanted V to die. That's not a conspiracy[0], but a review[1]. You should be glad for the people that actually spend time to market your product, raise your credibility, tell you how you see from outside, and provide independent checks. For free. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review
tene 4y ago
Yes, it's very different. Xe is predicting that V will die in obscurity, and recommending that people ignore it due to that prediction. Look at the second half of that comment: > There are good ideas there, but if you sell someone the moon and give them a block of cheese that's kind of a scam. Xe says "There are good ideas there". What do you think the metaphor of being sold the moon and receiving a block of cheese was intended to express? What does it mean to you? To me, it very clearly expresses that the language described by V's marketing would be extremely valuable and desirable, and that Xe is disappointed that V does not live up to what they expected. It's bizarre to me that you somehow see this as consistent with "should die". What is your evidence that there's a conspiracy? Why do you believe that people are secretly coordinating on secret plans to destroy you? Everything I've seen is completely consistent with individuals disapproving of what they see as you repeatedly claiming that V is far more capable and ready than it actually is and ignoring others who point out their perception of the same exaggerations. I'll be curious to read your upcoming blog post about this topic, as I have yet to see you describe any justification for your conspiracy claims besides you finding it implausible that people could actually disapprove of how you talk about your work. The blog posts that you keep claiming are maliciously-motivated conspiracy seem entirely normal criticism to me. They describe their goals and motivations, and those goals and motivations seem like very normal and reasonable motivations that explain the content of the blog post. I don't see anything that would need speculated malicious conspiracy to explain it.
- Tozen 4y ago
  > ...seem entirely normal criticism to me... Creating a blog, with an obvious smear title like "V is Vaporware" and making comments like "I recommend against using it for anything...", is not "normal" criticism. That is attempting to go above and beyond, with drama and smearing. To include following such blog posts up with more linking, smearing, drama posts, and attempts to use such to get more attention for one's self at the expense of the V language.
  - tene 4y ago
    There are things that are actually vaporware. It is reasonable and normal for people to actually say when they believe that something has a lot of signs of being vaporware. Are there really, truly no tools that you personally recommend against using?

jsnell 4y ago

Yes, it is completely different, as explained in that comment. Glad we've sorted this out, I trust that you'll stop making this claim in the future.

amedvednikov 4y ago
Agree to disagree. An author saying that proves the bias and the attack angle.
- jsnell 4y ago
  It doesn't. But there's a more important point: you're paraphrasing somebody you clearly have a great deal of personal animosity toward, completely changing the meaning in the process, and with no indication that this is what's happening. You've continued doing that even when it's pointed out to you. There are two options I can see: - You genuinely are not fluent enough in the language to either understand the original statement, or to write a fair paraphrase, and are not willing to believe this mistake. - You know exactly what you're doing. That is, if you gave the actual quote, nobody would for a moment take it as a proof of your conspiracy claims. Neither of the above is acting in good faith. I'd ask again whether you'll stop lying about what Xe said, but at this point the answer feels pretty obvious...
Tozen 4y ago
I disagree with you as well. Clearly the blog creator is hoping for V's death, for whatever hidden intentions that they have.
- jsnell 4y ago
  We cannot know what the blog author was hoping for, we can only know what they wrote. And what they wrote is not anywhere near what amedvednikov repeatedly claims. Why are you ok with such blatant misrepresntation? If this conspiracy actually exists, isn't there some evidence that actually stands on its own rather than needing to be lied about?

bmacho 4y ago

> There actually is such a conspiracy. People who wrote these articles literally wrote they wanted V to die. That's not a conspiracy[0], but a review[1]. You should be glad for the people that actually spend time to market your product, raise your credibility, tell you how you see from outside, and provide independent checks. For free. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Review

tene 4y ago

Yes, it's very different. Xe is predicting that V will die in obscurity, and recommending that people ignore it due to that prediction. Look at the second half of that comment: > There are good ideas there, but if you sell someone the moon and give them a block of cheese that's kind of a scam. Xe says "There are good ideas there". What do you think the metaphor of being sold the moon and receiving a block of cheese was intended to express? What does it mean to you? To me, it very clearly expresses that the language described by V's marketing would be extremely valuable and desirable, and that Xe is disappointed that V does not live up to what they expected. It's bizarre to me that you somehow see this as consistent with "should die". What is your evidence that there's a conspiracy? Why do you believe that people are secretly coordinating on secret plans to destroy you? Everything I've seen is completely consistent with individuals disapproving of what they see as you repeatedly claiming that V is far more capable and ready than it actually is and ignoring others who point out their perception of the same exaggerations. I'll be curious to read your upcoming blog post about this topic, as I have yet to see you describe any justification for your conspiracy claims besides you finding it implausible that people could actually disapprove of how you talk about your work. The blog posts that you keep claiming are maliciously-motivated conspiracy seem entirely normal criticism to me. They describe their goals and motivations, and those goals and motivations seem like very normal and reasonable motivations that explain the content of the blog post. I don't see anything that would need speculated malicious conspiracy to explain it.

Tozen 4y ago
> ...seem entirely normal criticism to me... Creating a blog, with an obvious smear title like "V is Vaporware" and making comments like "I recommend against using it for anything...", is not "normal" criticism. That is attempting to go above and beyond, with drama and smearing. To include following such blog posts up with more linking, smearing, drama posts, and attempts to use such to get more attention for one's self at the expense of the V language.
- tene 4y ago
  There are things that are actually vaporware. It is reasonable and normal for people to actually say when they believe that something has a lot of signs of being vaporware. Are there really, truly no tools that you personally recommend against using?