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There actually is such a conspiracy. People who wrote these articles literally wrote they wanted V to die. I'll make a detailed post about this next week.

colejohnson66 4y ago
While wishing V would die is extreme, many people are just resentful about how V treated criticism in the beginning. Not to mention that a conspiracy requires a coordinated effort. It's a lot more likely that blog writers are upset about something and decide to go on rants about other minutiae they find instead of submitting GitHub issues.
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  There are coordinated efforts on discords to brigade such threads, there are entire new accounts created just to reply to each of my comments negatively (luckily just today HN banned such an account), this very post about V 0.3 was mass flagged 3 times and removed from the front page 3 times, there are articles that take a simple bug fixed by a 3 line commit, and make a huge deal out of it spending a month writing an attacking post. Who would spend a month to write an article about a type checker bug?
  - colejohnson66 4y ago
    Simply, V is very divisive. So, some people who peruse HN but don't have an account will see a V post, and make an account just to comment. Humans are just irrational.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      I don't creating an account and monitoring my comments and replying to them with attacks and trolling for 3 years is "just commenting".
      - colejohnson66 4y ago
        There's definitely trolls; I wasn't trying to imply otherwise. There's always going to be people who think your project is stupid, and it'll only get worse as the project grows. I think the best solution is to just ignore them.
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Luckily in this case the amount of trolling goes down as the project grows :) There are now V contributors who used to troll V back in the day.
    - hunterb123 4y ago
      > Simply, V is very divisive. How is an open-source programming language divisive? Seems the people brigading are toxic and divisive, not the language or it's maintainers.
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        Exactly! Thank you :)
  - InefficientRed 4y ago
    > Who would spend a month to write an article about a type checker bug? I have no horse in this race, have never heard of V, and frankly find the emotional charge in this comment section extraordinary... odd. But I am a PL person. Bugs in the type checker are pretty unambiguously a big deal. I totally understand why the examples in the blog post are alarming. The point isn't that they can be fixed by 3 lines; the point is that there were obvious soundness bugs in the type checker implementation and the language designer's attitude seems to be "NBD if the patch is small enough". Given the post and reaction, I would not be surprised if there are many more soundness bugs lurking. So, that's an issue if I want to use the language for anything serious. That said, it looks like a hobby language in its early stages of approaching maturity, so the degree of divisiveness is seriously confusing. My reaction to all the drama is closer to "yup some soundness bugs; type systems get subtle fast, what a great thing to learn from" than "I hope V dies / the V critics are terrible". I'm guessing there are weird personality/politics at play, but don't care enough to find out. Anyways. I liked the Android examples.
wokwokwok 4y ago
You posted lower down asking to be called out for specific behaviour that people find objectionable. This. It’s complete nonsense that there is a conspiracy to kill v off. You know it. We know it. Saying it is just drama for the sake of drama. > And the issues discussed are questionable at best. Half the article is about a type checker bug, which was a 3 line fix. > Then false claims like being able to modify array.len. This. You’re just creating drama saying things like this. Just say: “The issues in that review have been fixed now, please have a look and submit bugs in the issue tracker if you find them”. If someone has a legitimate thing to say, and at the time they say it it’s valid… that’s fine. If was wrong at the time, then by all means call it out. …but here’s the good story about v: you fix bugs. A lot. Quickly. You build lots of stuff. It’s very impressive. Things aren’t always perfect; it’s v0.3 for goodness sake. It’s fine. Just a) don’t claim it’s perfect when it’s not, and b) just clearly point out when issues that have been raised are fixed.
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  It's not nonsense, read my replies below and the upcoming blog post next week. It's on a scale I've never seen before.
  - wokwokwok 4y ago
    I’m really sorry you feel that way; I honestly respect the work you do and I’m convinced you’re not correct about this… but hey; you’re deeper into it than me. Maybe there is? I don’t know. …but, please also stop and read what I said. You asked for specific examples where your interactions are causing problems. this is it. Don’t post like this. You’re accusing people of attacking you, attacking other people (for example your comments on the author of Zig below). This is what causes people to have bad interactions with you.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      So people calling me a fraud and a scammer are not attacking me?
jsnell 4y ago
You made that claim a couple of weeks ago, somebody investigated your claim, it turned out that you were grossly distorting the actual comment when paraphrasing. And given you continued to be active on that thread, you're clearly aware of this. Why continue spreading the lie? At this point you can't even claim it was an honest mistake. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31830750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31830750
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  Is "I think it is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity" different from "I think it should die"?
  - jsnell 4y ago
    Yes, it is completely different, as explained in that comment. Glad we've sorted this out, I trust that you'll stop making this claim in the future.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Agree to disagree. An author saying that proves the bias and the attack angle.
      - jsnell 4y ago
        It doesn't. But there's a more important point: you're paraphrasing somebody you clearly have a great deal of personal animosity toward, completely changing the meaning in the process, and with no indication that this is what's happening. You've continued doing that even when it's pointed out to you. There are two options I can see: - You genuinely are not fluent enough in the language to either understand the original statement, or to write a fair paraphrase, and are not willing to believe this mistake. - You know exactly what you're doing. That is, if you gave the actual quote, nobody would for a moment take it as a proof of your conspiracy claims. Neither of the above is acting in good faith. I'd ask again whether you'll stop lying about what Xe said, but at this point the answer feels pretty obvious...

colejohnson66 4y ago

While wishing V would die is extreme, many people are just resentful about how V treated criticism in the beginning. Not to mention that a conspiracy requires a coordinated effort. It's a lot more likely that blog writers are upset about something and decide to go on rants about other minutiae they find instead of submitting GitHub issues.

amedvednikov 4y ago
There are coordinated efforts on discords to brigade such threads, there are entire new accounts created just to reply to each of my comments negatively (luckily just today HN banned such an account), this very post about V 0.3 was mass flagged 3 times and removed from the front page 3 times, there are articles that take a simple bug fixed by a 3 line commit, and make a huge deal out of it spending a month writing an attacking post. Who would spend a month to write an article about a type checker bug?
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  Simply, V is very divisive. So, some people who peruse HN but don't have an account will see a V post, and make an account just to comment. Humans are just irrational.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    I don't creating an account and monitoring my comments and replying to them with attacks and trolling for 3 years is "just commenting".
    - colejohnson66 4y ago
      There's definitely trolls; I wasn't trying to imply otherwise. There's always going to be people who think your project is stupid, and it'll only get worse as the project grows. I think the best solution is to just ignore them.
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        Luckily in this case the amount of trolling goes down as the project grows :) There are now V contributors who used to troll V back in the day.
  - hunterb123 4y ago
    > Simply, V is very divisive. How is an open-source programming language divisive? Seems the people brigading are toxic and divisive, not the language or it's maintainers.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Exactly! Thank you :)
- InefficientRed 4y ago
  > Who would spend a month to write an article about a type checker bug? I have no horse in this race, have never heard of V, and frankly find the emotional charge in this comment section extraordinary... odd. But I am a PL person. Bugs in the type checker are pretty unambiguously a big deal. I totally understand why the examples in the blog post are alarming. The point isn't that they can be fixed by 3 lines; the point is that there were obvious soundness bugs in the type checker implementation and the language designer's attitude seems to be "NBD if the patch is small enough". Given the post and reaction, I would not be surprised if there are many more soundness bugs lurking. So, that's an issue if I want to use the language for anything serious. That said, it looks like a hobby language in its early stages of approaching maturity, so the degree of divisiveness is seriously confusing. My reaction to all the drama is closer to "yup some soundness bugs; type systems get subtle fast, what a great thing to learn from" than "I hope V dies / the V critics are terrible". I'm guessing there are weird personality/politics at play, but don't care enough to find out. Anyways. I liked the Android examples.

wokwokwok 4y ago

You posted lower down asking to be called out for specific behaviour that people find objectionable. This. It’s complete nonsense that there is a conspiracy to kill v off. You know it. We know it. Saying it is just drama for the sake of drama. > And the issues discussed are questionable at best. Half the article is about a type checker bug, which was a 3 line fix. > Then false claims like being able to modify array.len. This. You’re just creating drama saying things like this. Just say: “The issues in that review have been fixed now, please have a look and submit bugs in the issue tracker if you find them”. If someone has a legitimate thing to say, and at the time they say it it’s valid… that’s fine. If was wrong at the time, then by all means call it out. …but here’s the good story about v: you fix bugs. A lot. Quickly. You build lots of stuff. It’s very impressive. Things aren’t always perfect; it’s v0.3 for goodness sake. It’s fine. Just a) don’t claim it’s perfect when it’s not, and b) just clearly point out when issues that have been raised are fixed.

amedvednikov 4y ago
It's not nonsense, read my replies below and the upcoming blog post next week. It's on a scale I've never seen before.
- wokwokwok 4y ago
  I’m really sorry you feel that way; I honestly respect the work you do and I’m convinced you’re not correct about this… but hey; you’re deeper into it than me. Maybe there is? I don’t know. …but, please also stop and read what I said. You asked for specific examples where your interactions are causing problems. this is it. Don’t post like this. You’re accusing people of attacking you, attacking other people (for example your comments on the author of Zig below). This is what causes people to have bad interactions with you.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    So people calling me a fraud and a scammer are not attacking me?

jsnell 4y ago

You made that claim a couple of weeks ago, somebody investigated your claim, it turned out that you were grossly distorting the actual comment when paraphrasing. And given you continued to be active on that thread, you're clearly aware of this. Why continue spreading the lie? At this point you can't even claim it was an honest mistake. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31830750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31830750

amedvednikov 4y ago
Is "I think it is something that should be ignored until it dies into obscurity" different from "I think it should die"?
- jsnell 4y ago
  Yes, it is completely different, as explained in that comment. Glad we've sorted this out, I trust that you'll stop making this claim in the future.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    Agree to disagree. An author saying that proves the bias and the attack angle.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      It doesn't. But there's a more important point: you're paraphrasing somebody you clearly have a great deal of personal animosity toward, completely changing the meaning in the process, and with no indication that this is what's happening. You've continued doing that even when it's pointed out to you. There are two options I can see: - You genuinely are not fluent enough in the language to either understand the original statement, or to write a fair paraphrase, and are not willing to believe this mistake. - You know exactly what you're doing. That is, if you gave the actual quote, nobody would for a moment take it as a proof of your conspiracy claims. Neither of the above is acting in good faith. I'd ask again whether you'll stop lying about what Xe said, but at this point the answer feels pretty obvious...