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> Some people die. Is that an acceptable cost? Does your solution make any considerations for ongoing harm? You talk as if this isn't exactly what happened in

> Some people die. Is that an acceptable cost? Does your solution make any considerations for ongoing harm? You talk as if this isn't exactly what happened in the current framework of private censorship. Even if abolishing private censorship would cause the scenario you outlined, that wouldn't be worse than the current situation and at least you'd solve the problem of pointless censorship.

DangitBobby 4y ago
If the video goes down and fewer people see it, fewer people die. How was the censorship pointless? You didn't "solve" any problems, you just ignored the actual complexity of the real world to uphold your ideals.
- mrtksn 4y ago
  Speech is not magic spell. Sure, in Turkey the government believes that Netflix makes people gay and they regulate Netflix to ungay the Turkish youth but this is just as ridiculous as the censorship on other topics on other parts of the world. If someone is dying because of a video, the fix is not in removal of the video. Sure, you can put labels agains poor judgement like they do on physical products.
  - framapotari 4y ago
    > If someone is dying because of a video, the fix is not in removal of the video It might not be 'the' fix but it could be 'a' fix. If your interest is preventing deaths that is.
    - mrtksn 4y ago
      Many things can be a fix to many problems. Listening devices at homes can be a fix to domestic violence for example. The point is, for "a fix" of an issue we are trading things and I don't find it a good trade. Total unchallenged censorship is ot a good compromise to "save the kids".
      - framapotari 4y ago
        I don't think a private company choosing what they host on their platform is total unchallenged censorship. With such a vast gap in understanding of terms I don't think discussion will get us anywhere.
        mrtksn 4y ago
        You can find a lot of feedback of creators about their objections falling on deaf ears but yes, you are right; that's the core of the disagreement, let's agree to disagree.
- pastacacioepepe 4y ago
  > If the video goes down and fewer people see it, fewer people die. Isn't it the case that the dangerous video was left up while the criticism was removed? > How was the censorship pointless? I'm talking specifically about private censorship.
framapotari 4y ago
> Even if abolishing private censorship would cause the scenario you outlined, that wouldn't be worse than the current situation This seems like a statement with nothing behind it but your confidence that it is truth. I believe that could be much worse than the current situation.

DangitBobby 4y ago

If the video goes down and fewer people see it, fewer people die. How was the censorship pointless? You didn't "solve" any problems, you just ignored the actual complexity of the real world to uphold your ideals.

mrtksn 4y ago
Speech is not magic spell. Sure, in Turkey the government believes that Netflix makes people gay and they regulate Netflix to ungay the Turkish youth but this is just as ridiculous as the censorship on other topics on other parts of the world. If someone is dying because of a video, the fix is not in removal of the video. Sure, you can put labels agains poor judgement like they do on physical products.
- framapotari 4y ago
  > If someone is dying because of a video, the fix is not in removal of the video It might not be 'the' fix but it could be 'a' fix. If your interest is preventing deaths that is.
  - mrtksn 4y ago
    Many things can be a fix to many problems. Listening devices at homes can be a fix to domestic violence for example. The point is, for "a fix" of an issue we are trading things and I don't find it a good trade. Total unchallenged censorship is ot a good compromise to "save the kids".
    - framapotari 4y ago
      I don't think a private company choosing what they host on their platform is total unchallenged censorship. With such a vast gap in understanding of terms I don't think discussion will get us anywhere.
      - mrtksn 4y ago
        You can find a lot of feedback of creators about their objections falling on deaf ears but yes, you are right; that's the core of the disagreement, let's agree to disagree.
pastacacioepepe 4y ago
> If the video goes down and fewer people see it, fewer people die. Isn't it the case that the dangerous video was left up while the criticism was removed? > How was the censorship pointless? I'm talking specifically about private censorship.

framapotari 4y ago

> Even if abolishing private censorship would cause the scenario you outlined, that wouldn't be worse than the current situation This seems like a statement with nothing behind it but your confidence that it is truth. I believe that could be much worse than the current situation.