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None or few of those options are particularly accessible (EDIT: for people who cannot walk/cycle long distances). Public transportation often is quite inaccessi

None or few of those options are particularly accessible (EDIT: for people who cannot walk/cycle long distances). Public transportation often is quite inaccessible while still claiming to be accessible (like the London Underground and the New York Subway). Central management of driverless cars could solve the problem in a more inclusive fashion and isn't just more of the same idea. We should still reduce the size of the vehicles, though. EDIT clarification: Accessibility for wheelchair users, blind people, and anyone with ambulatory restrictions. Most stations are not wheelchair accessible to the train and having to go on much longer routes to compensate is not equal access. And many 'encouraging other use' initiatives block all cars, leaving these people in the lurch. Something that gave door-to-door access to everyone, equally, via a fleet of cars, could be superior.

arrrg 4y ago
If we could reduce car infrastructure to the point where only people who need a car for the transportation to be accessible would use it that would be a dream. I don’t get the accessibility angle at all. It’s a non-issue because you will have a very hard time finding people who have issues with exceptions for accessibility. That would still reduce the need for car infrastructure massively. The thing is, we need to start building the future right now, right here and massively. That means public transportation centric development (= building public transport to nowhere and letting the area develop alongside the walksheds with appropriate mixed use zoning) and actually being brave enough to re-structure existing solutions along those lines. That all isn’t magic, we just need to do it. We know it works, it doesn’t require any technological breakthroughs.
- chitowneats 4y ago
  Does it? For a time, perhaps. China's high speed rail network, built largely in the way you describe, is nearly a trillion dollars in debt. https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-looks-to-slow-growth-of-struggling-high-speed-rail https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-looks-to-slow...
YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
>> None or few of those options are particularly accessible. At the moment, neither are self-driving cars sufficiently capable to replace human drivers. We're chasing a future tech dream when we already have technology that can solve the problems we are facing right now. Edit: What do you mean by "accessible"? The London underground and generally public transport in the UK works very well. Speaking after having lived there for 15 years, studying and working in London and a smaller town, and never having owed a car.
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  +1 on London underground being very accessible. Although I only lived there for a few months, it was insanely easy to get around relative to American cities I've lived in (San Diego, SF, DC) although I think Berlin's combination of train and tram was even better
- zinekeller 4y ago
  > the London Underground Just going with the parent comment and I'm asking when did you last use the Underground and what station do you think has accessibility issues? I found that the London system is pretty much accessible with aggressive retrofitting on older stations, but I'll acknowledge that if you have used it say more than 10 years ago then I understand.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
    I think you're replying to the child of my comment?
  - tim333 4y ago
    Oxford Circus you still have to be able to walk up/down stairs.
  - ghusbands 4y ago
    I've used it plenty and still use it. It is getting better in places, but just look at the tube map - large parts of the system still lack step-free access, let alone the problems the system has in other ways (overcrowding and people not giving up their seats or making space appropriately); we should be trying for (in-city) transport systems that don't require such congregation. The last time I travelled the tube with a wheelchair user with a pain condition, the (non-strike) closures hit in such a way that we couldn't reach our destination without going on a detour that was so long (more than an hour) that the system assumed we'd forgotten to swipe out and back in and charged a penalty fare. The people manning the help-intercoms were unable to assist in finding a route that didn't have closures. And it's normal to have to find alternative, slower routes than the ones everyone else can take.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ecshafer 4y ago
Surely it would be easier to make public transportation more accessible in a non-car oriented city than making driverless cars, which then have large amounts of continuous infrastructure costs, health care costs from less exercise, social costs, and also the fact its still not known if this is even entirely possible. As a thought experiment, we have no cars other than emergency vehicles and some commercial vehicles occasionally. Everyone is able to walk to 90% of destinations, and bike or public transport the last 10%. It would be easier to have people who can't walk well in small electric personal transport devices (wheel chairs, segway, electric bikes, motorized scooters seen at walmart) that if they crash do not pose any threat to anyone. Surely adding wheel chair accessible elevators to train stops for public transit, is easier than building out entire car centris highway infrastructure that requires continuous expensive maintenance. Public transit and walking is already more accessible to the blind than automobiles, that is a nil point.
Fricken 4y ago
A friend of mine is a quadruple amputee. He can't drive a car, but he can use bike lanes and public transit just fine.

arrrg 4y ago

If we could reduce car infrastructure to the point where only people who need a car for the transportation to be accessible would use it that would be a dream. I don’t get the accessibility angle at all. It’s a non-issue because you will have a very hard time finding people who have issues with exceptions for accessibility. That would still reduce the need for car infrastructure massively. The thing is, we need to start building the future right now, right here and massively. That means public transportation centric development (= building public transport to nowhere and letting the area develop alongside the walksheds with appropriate mixed use zoning) and actually being brave enough to re-structure existing solutions along those lines. That all isn’t magic, we just need to do it. We know it works, it doesn’t require any technological breakthroughs.

chitowneats 4y ago
Does it? For a time, perhaps. China's high speed rail network, built largely in the way you describe, is nearly a trillion dollars in debt. https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-looks-to-slow-growth-of-struggling-high-speed-rail https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-looks-to-slow...

YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago

>> None or few of those options are particularly accessible. At the moment, neither are self-driving cars sufficiently capable to replace human drivers. We're chasing a future tech dream when we already have technology that can solve the problems we are facing right now. Edit: What do you mean by "accessible"? The London underground and generally public transport in the UK works very well. Speaking after having lived there for 15 years, studying and working in London and a smaller town, and never having owed a car.

atlasunshrugged 4y ago
+1 on London underground being very accessible. Although I only lived there for a few months, it was insanely easy to get around relative to American cities I've lived in (San Diego, SF, DC) although I think Berlin's combination of train and tram was even better
zinekeller 4y ago
> the London Underground Just going with the parent comment and I'm asking when did you last use the Underground and what station do you think has accessibility issues? I found that the London system is pretty much accessible with aggressive retrofitting on older stations, but I'll acknowledge that if you have used it say more than 10 years ago then I understand.
- YeGoblynQueenne 4y ago
  I think you're replying to the child of my comment?
- tim333 4y ago
  Oxford Circus you still have to be able to walk up/down stairs.
- ghusbands 4y ago
  I've used it plenty and still use it. It is getting better in places, but just look at the tube map - large parts of the system still lack step-free access, let alone the problems the system has in other ways (overcrowding and people not giving up their seats or making space appropriately); we should be trying for (in-city) transport systems that don't require such congregation. The last time I travelled the tube with a wheelchair user with a pain condition, the (non-strike) closures hit in such a way that we couldn't reach our destination without going on a detour that was so long (more than an hour) that the system assumed we'd forgotten to swipe out and back in and charged a penalty fare. The people manning the help-intercoms were unable to assist in finding a route that didn't have closures. And it's normal to have to find alternative, slower routes than the ones everyone else can take.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ecshafer 4y ago

Surely it would be easier to make public transportation more accessible in a non-car oriented city than making driverless cars, which then have large amounts of continuous infrastructure costs, health care costs from less exercise, social costs, and also the fact its still not known if this is even entirely possible. As a thought experiment, we have no cars other than emergency vehicles and some commercial vehicles occasionally. Everyone is able to walk to 90% of destinations, and bike or public transport the last 10%. It would be easier to have people who can't walk well in small electric personal transport devices (wheel chairs, segway, electric bikes, motorized scooters seen at walmart) that if they crash do not pose any threat to anyone. Surely adding wheel chair accessible elevators to train stops for public transit, is easier than building out entire car centris highway infrastructure that requires continuous expensive maintenance. Public transit and walking is already more accessible to the blind than automobiles, that is a nil point.

Fricken 4y ago

A friend of mine is a quadruple amputee. He can't drive a car, but he can use bike lanes and public transit just fine.