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V's creator here. We're really excited about this release. This is a big one. 5769 commits pushed to master, 1697 bugs closed. The highlights of this release

V's creator here. We're really excited about this release. This is a big one. 5769 commits pushed to master, 1697 bugs closed. The highlights of this release are C2V, a fully automatic C => V source code translator, closures, and no more memory leaks by default. There's a really cool C2V demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oXrz3oRoEg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oXrz3oRoEg Translating DOOM from C to V, building it in under a second and running it!

ducktective 4y ago
Thanks for posting. > Translating DOOM from C to V Like, you can literally translate a C project to V without any manual intervention?
- amedvednikov 4y ago
  Exactly.
  - colejohnson66 4y ago
    This isn't a criticism, but what's the purpose of using c2v? As in, anything outside c2v just to compile it. The example of DOOM is taking the C code, converting it to V, then compiling it (which internally converts V to C before passing it off).
    - abc_lisper 4y ago
      If it works, devs can move to a safer language for future development of the project. Anyways, code as a sacred artifact perspective needs to go - by that I mean, having tools to modify/convert and answer questions about code much more easily. May be with AI that would finally be possible.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Generating V wrappers on top of C libraries in order to use them. Otherwise all functions and types would have to be manually converted. Migrating older projects from C to a nicer newer language. By moving from C to V you get rid of complex makefiles, headers (you get nice clean modules instead), you get a modern stdlib with strings etc (although C strings aren't converted to V strings by C2V yet), much easier cross compilation, etc.
      - psychoslave 4y ago
        Was it tested on very huge code base like say, the Linux kernel?
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        DOOM is big but not huge. So not yet. But we are planning to translate SQLite soon and yes the Linux kernel at some point.
        haolez 4y ago
        Linux kernel might be a tricky one with all the inline assembly code.
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Luckily V supports inline assembly code! It's used a lot in Vinix.
        psychoslave 4y ago
        Yes I didn't mean to down size the impressiveness of translating DOOM, congratulation for that. I was just wondering to which scale it would stretch properly. Thanks for your replies.
      - nyberg 4y ago
        How do you handle function-like macros and concatenation? Also, both D and Zig seem to have switched to including a full C compiler instead due to issues with translating C source wise, is that a possible direction for this in V or is the source translation good enough?
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Macros are unwrapped by Clang when generating C AST. No plans to support C compilation for now, translation works well enough.
    - pledg 4y ago
      A use case would be converting an existing c codebase to v and then continuing development in v, rather than c.
      - gompertz 4y ago
        I think this is very good for legacy C projects specifically that are no longer being worked on, to breath new life into them and easier coding.
    - pxeger1 4y ago
      I presume the intention is that V will be compiled natively eventually, not via C.
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        Yes, there's our own fast native backend, about as fast as tcc. But it can't compile V yet. It will never be as optimized as cc -O2 though, and it will never be as portable as C, so C will always stay an option.
    - flohofwoe 4y ago
      For libraries this can be useful if it means that you don't need to deal with a separate C toolchain in the build process. Instead you just bundle a copy of the library transpiled from C.
Chio 4y ago
The "autofree" memory management [1] seems quite interesting, and a very cool mixture between garbage collection with static memory management. Has been there been any seminar / conference talk held on this topic related to the pros / cons of this approach vs a pure GC memory management strategy, since it seems like it could be used in _almost_ all modern GC languages. [1] https://vlang.io/#memory https://vlang.io/#memory
- forgotpwd16 4y ago
  Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514198
bakul 4y ago
I tried c2v on some very simple commands in freebsd /usr/src/bin/ such as ls and pwd and it failed. Still, very good to see this progress! May be you can add some FreeBSD commands to your test cases?
- ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
  This is why I don't believe a word from the author. I don't even know if the demo is actually translating it or a demo of how he wants it to work. I have no idea if 90% of it is hand translated (SDL, some complex routines, etc) with the easy 10% actually translated. Or maybe 100% of it isn't translated but compiled to object files with a compiler with V generating wrapper functions. I have no idea what to expect I just never heard of anyone using V and it actually working as they expect
  - bakul 4y ago
    c2v may have some assumptions that are not specified by FreeBSD C code. Probably easily fixable. Rather than assume, you can use V and find out for yourself what works and what doesn’t.
    - ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
      > Rather than assume, you can use V and find out for yourself what works and what doesn’t. Why would I bother? It's been shown the author says one thing while reality shows another
      - bakul 4y ago
        So you are commenting on something about which you have no direct experience, nor are you planning to change that. Why even “bother” repeating something you may have read or heard; why not just stay silent or learn something new?
        ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago

ducktective 4y ago

Thanks for posting. > Translating DOOM from C to V Like, you can literally translate a C project to V without any manual intervention?

amedvednikov 4y ago
Exactly.
- colejohnson66 4y ago
  This isn't a criticism, but what's the purpose of using c2v? As in, anything outside c2v just to compile it. The example of DOOM is taking the C code, converting it to V, then compiling it (which internally converts V to C before passing it off).
  - abc_lisper 4y ago
    If it works, devs can move to a safer language for future development of the project. Anyways, code as a sacred artifact perspective needs to go - by that I mean, having tools to modify/convert and answer questions about code much more easily. May be with AI that would finally be possible.
  - amedvednikov 4y ago
    Generating V wrappers on top of C libraries in order to use them. Otherwise all functions and types would have to be manually converted. Migrating older projects from C to a nicer newer language. By moving from C to V you get rid of complex makefiles, headers (you get nice clean modules instead), you get a modern stdlib with strings etc (although C strings aren't converted to V strings by C2V yet), much easier cross compilation, etc.
    - psychoslave 4y ago
      Was it tested on very huge code base like say, the Linux kernel?
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        DOOM is big but not huge. So not yet. But we are planning to translate SQLite soon and yes the Linux kernel at some point.
        haolez 4y ago
        Linux kernel might be a tricky one with all the inline assembly code.
        amedvednikov 4y ago
        Luckily V supports inline assembly code! It's used a lot in Vinix.
        psychoslave 4y ago
        Yes I didn't mean to down size the impressiveness of translating DOOM, congratulation for that. I was just wondering to which scale it would stretch properly. Thanks for your replies.
    - nyberg 4y ago
      How do you handle function-like macros and concatenation? Also, both D and Zig seem to have switched to including a full C compiler instead due to issues with translating C source wise, is that a possible direction for this in V or is the source translation good enough?
      - amedvednikov 4y ago
        Macros are unwrapped by Clang when generating C AST. No plans to support C compilation for now, translation works well enough.
  - pledg 4y ago
    A use case would be converting an existing c codebase to v and then continuing development in v, rather than c.
    - gompertz 4y ago
      I think this is very good for legacy C projects specifically that are no longer being worked on, to breath new life into them and easier coding.
  - pxeger1 4y ago
    I presume the intention is that V will be compiled natively eventually, not via C.
    - amedvednikov 4y ago
      Yes, there's our own fast native backend, about as fast as tcc. But it can't compile V yet. It will never be as optimized as cc -O2 though, and it will never be as portable as C, so C will always stay an option.
  - flohofwoe 4y ago
    For libraries this can be useful if it means that you don't need to deal with a separate C toolchain in the build process. Instead you just bundle a copy of the library transpiled from C.

Chio 4y ago

The "autofree" memory management [1] seems quite interesting, and a very cool mixture between garbage collection with static memory management. Has been there been any seminar / conference talk held on this topic related to the pros / cons of this approach vs a pure GC memory management strategy, since it seems like it could be used in _almost_ all modern GC languages. [1] https://vlang.io/#memory https://vlang.io/#memory

forgotpwd16 4y ago
Ref: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25514198

bakul 4y ago

I tried c2v on some very simple commands in freebsd /usr/src/bin/ such as ls and pwd and it failed. Still, very good to see this progress! May be you can add some FreeBSD commands to your test cases?

ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
This is why I don't believe a word from the author. I don't even know if the demo is actually translating it or a demo of how he wants it to work. I have no idea if 90% of it is hand translated (SDL, some complex routines, etc) with the easy 10% actually translated. Or maybe 100% of it isn't translated but compiled to object files with a compiler with V generating wrapper functions. I have no idea what to expect I just never heard of anyone using V and it actually working as they expect
- bakul 4y ago
  c2v may have some assumptions that are not specified by FreeBSD C code. Probably easily fixable. Rather than assume, you can use V and find out for yourself what works and what doesn’t.
  - ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
    > Rather than assume, you can use V and find out for yourself what works and what doesn’t. Why would I bother? It's been shown the author says one thing while reality shows another
    - bakul 4y ago
      So you are commenting on something about which you have no direct experience, nor are you planning to change that. Why even “bother” repeating something you may have read or heard; why not just stay silent or learn something new?
      - ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago