5 ms·

Nothing inherently right with gatekeeping. Many harmful effects, though. Alienating valuable members comes to mind.

raspyberr 4y ago
So if it's not inherently wrong OR right, then it must be inherently neutral. Which means it can be used for both positive or negative purposes. You gave a negative purpose. I would argue that health and safety can often be seen as a form of positive gatekeeping. In context of the original post, using a knife "properly".
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Sure, but that's not what we usually mean by gatekeeping. Controlling who can and cannot join the community based on some arbitrary, subjective critera is what we usually mean by gatekeeping. E.g.: FDA does not gatekeep - they enforce safety criteria to products; metal music fans often gatekeep - they enforce their own opinion of other metal music bands/fans and are trying to police the metal music scene.
  - raspyberr 4y ago
    I didn't realise there was a delay in replying and I edited my post. I didn't mean regulation based safety. I've noticed people get quite defensive if you tell them sharp knives are safer and their blunt knife is dangerous. I can see having to buy sharpeners and honing rods and being told what you're doing is wrong could be considered gatekeeping.
    - iSnow 4y ago
      LOL nonsense, blunt knives aren't dangerous. That's just more of the same toxic attitude.
      - hunterb123 4y ago
        They very much are. You are prone to mishandle a blunt blade to try and get it to cut. You have to put a lot more force into a blunt blade. When it finally gets through (or jumps from) what you're hacking at, it's going somewhere, fast. The blade will do much more damage to your skin, tearing it instead of slicing, takes longer to heal from a blunt blade, infection more likely. It's much safer to have a sharp knife that you can handle with finesse. Not a dull one you have to hack with. I wouldn't really call this gatekeeping either, it's pretty much knife safety 101. Right up there with curling your fingers and pushing not pulling the blade.
        hef19898 4y ago
        This. You don't need 600 dollar hand forged, single bevel damast knifes so to have a sharp tool. Butchers are definitely not usong those, despite having a daily, professionally in the sense of earning their living, need for sharp knifes. And even the 600 dollar knife gets blunt ultimately. Sharp knife = good advice Expensive luxury tool = gate keeping
        choko 4y ago
        It depends. I used the cheap knives for a long time before I was more successful in my career. It was a chore to keep them sharp as they tended to dull very quickly. Once I had more money to spend, I bought a knife with more desirable steel properties which came at a much higher price. The upside is that I have to spend far less time keeping the knife sharp and safe.
        hef19898 4y ago
        As for all tools, for most use cases, some decent middle ground tools do the trick. Pro grade tools have some properties that benefit pros (and can be hard to get by non-pros). Above that tools are an object of d!sire. Ehich os totally fine, if you want that 12k pro grade telephoto lense, by all means, go and get it. Shoot great photos with it and enjoy it everytime you use it. Or everytime you use that fancy knife to prepare a meal. Just don't make it a prerequisite for what you do, because you don't have to justufy the purchase. The simple joy you get of using it ia reason enough, and someone doing the same thing with less expensive gear is by no means diminishing the value you get from your expensive purchase.
    - paskozdilar 4y ago
      > I can see having to buy sharpeners and honing rods and being told what you're doing is wrong could be considered gatekeeping It depends on the context, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards of what they consider right and wrong. I that that the essential factor of "gatekeeping" is demoting others unless they don't fit your standards, e.g. "you are not a real cook if you use blunt knifes". Simply telling someone that using sharp knifes is safer than using blunt knifes wouldn't count as "gatekeeping" in my book, unless someone tried to keep you out of the gate because of it.
    - MrFantastic 4y ago
      Even knife sharpening has Gatekeeping. On many forums some people think that ceramic pull sharpeners will ruin your blades and you should use stones and oil. I've been using ceramic pull sharpener for 30 years on the same $100 chef knife. It's still in better shape than 95% of the knifes I've used in other people's homes.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        I used everything from pull sharperners over stones to polishing the hand forged, multilayer tanto I made for my dad's birthday using sand paper and a stone-water paste. The pull sharpener works wonders if the knife has to be sharpened quickly. If you do it long enough, the edge is ruined (I talk actually years of daily use of the knife here, and even then a decent knife will be rather sharp). Stones are good to get nice edges, I prefer to run newly made, or abused, blades over a belt grinder first (I'm a lazy and impatient person sometimes). And the full blown 160 - 3000 grid followed by stone-water paste polishing is something I'll only ever do for special occassions. Everything after 1000 grid, stone or paper, is for optics only. And even bread crust will cause scratches at that level. Is all of that necessary? Course not, I do it because it is fun (sometimes), and well cutting knifes are a pleasure to work with. Do those knifes improve the quality of the meals we cook? No, they just make the preparation easier to an extent. And in tje end the meal counts, not the tools you used to cook it.

So if it's not inherently wrong OR right, then it must be inherently neutral. Which means it can be used for both positive or negative purposes. You gave a negative purpose. I would argue that health and safety can often be seen as a form of positive gatekeeping. In context of the original post, using a knife "properly".

paskozdilar 4y ago
Sure, but that's not what we usually mean by gatekeeping. Controlling who can and cannot join the community based on some arbitrary, subjective critera is what we usually mean by gatekeeping. E.g.: FDA does not gatekeep - they enforce safety criteria to products; metal music fans often gatekeep - they enforce their own opinion of other metal music bands/fans and are trying to police the metal music scene.
- raspyberr 4y ago
  I didn't realise there was a delay in replying and I edited my post. I didn't mean regulation based safety. I've noticed people get quite defensive if you tell them sharp knives are safer and their blunt knife is dangerous. I can see having to buy sharpeners and honing rods and being told what you're doing is wrong could be considered gatekeeping.
  - iSnow 4y ago
    LOL nonsense, blunt knives aren't dangerous. That's just more of the same toxic attitude.
    - hunterb123 4y ago
      They very much are. You are prone to mishandle a blunt blade to try and get it to cut. You have to put a lot more force into a blunt blade. When it finally gets through (or jumps from) what you're hacking at, it's going somewhere, fast. The blade will do much more damage to your skin, tearing it instead of slicing, takes longer to heal from a blunt blade, infection more likely. It's much safer to have a sharp knife that you can handle with finesse. Not a dull one you have to hack with. I wouldn't really call this gatekeeping either, it's pretty much knife safety 101. Right up there with curling your fingers and pushing not pulling the blade.
      - hef19898 4y ago
        This. You don't need 600 dollar hand forged, single bevel damast knifes so to have a sharp tool. Butchers are definitely not usong those, despite having a daily, professionally in the sense of earning their living, need for sharp knifes. And even the 600 dollar knife gets blunt ultimately. Sharp knife = good advice Expensive luxury tool = gate keeping
        choko 4y ago
        It depends. I used the cheap knives for a long time before I was more successful in my career. It was a chore to keep them sharp as they tended to dull very quickly. Once I had more money to spend, I bought a knife with more desirable steel properties which came at a much higher price. The upside is that I have to spend far less time keeping the knife sharp and safe.
        hef19898 4y ago
        As for all tools, for most use cases, some decent middle ground tools do the trick. Pro grade tools have some properties that benefit pros (and can be hard to get by non-pros). Above that tools are an object of d!sire. Ehich os totally fine, if you want that 12k pro grade telephoto lense, by all means, go and get it. Shoot great photos with it and enjoy it everytime you use it. Or everytime you use that fancy knife to prepare a meal. Just don't make it a prerequisite for what you do, because you don't have to justufy the purchase. The simple joy you get of using it ia reason enough, and someone doing the same thing with less expensive gear is by no means diminishing the value you get from your expensive purchase.
  - paskozdilar 4y ago
    > I can see having to buy sharpeners and honing rods and being told what you're doing is wrong could be considered gatekeeping It depends on the context, of course. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and standards of what they consider right and wrong. I that that the essential factor of "gatekeeping" is demoting others unless they don't fit your standards, e.g. "you are not a real cook if you use blunt knifes". Simply telling someone that using sharp knifes is safer than using blunt knifes wouldn't count as "gatekeeping" in my book, unless someone tried to keep you out of the gate because of it.
  - MrFantastic 4y ago
    Even knife sharpening has Gatekeeping. On many forums some people think that ceramic pull sharpeners will ruin your blades and you should use stones and oil. I've been using ceramic pull sharpener for 30 years on the same $100 chef knife. It's still in better shape than 95% of the knifes I've used in other people's homes.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      I used everything from pull sharperners over stones to polishing the hand forged, multilayer tanto I made for my dad's birthday using sand paper and a stone-water paste. The pull sharpener works wonders if the knife has to be sharpened quickly. If you do it long enough, the edge is ruined (I talk actually years of daily use of the knife here, and even then a decent knife will be rather sharp). Stones are good to get nice edges, I prefer to run newly made, or abused, blades over a belt grinder first (I'm a lazy and impatient person sometimes). And the full blown 160 - 3000 grid followed by stone-water paste polishing is something I'll only ever do for special occassions. Everything after 1000 grid, stone or paper, is for optics only. And even bread crust will cause scratches at that level. Is all of that necessary? Course not, I do it because it is fun (sometimes), and well cutting knifes are a pleasure to work with. Do those knifes improve the quality of the meals we cook? No, they just make the preparation easier to an extent. And in tje end the meal counts, not the tools you used to cook it.