3 ms·

I don't think anyone would seriously claim that the existing 8-bit architectures represent any optimal design point (AVR definitely does not). A constant cycle

I don't think anyone would seriously claim that the existing 8-bit architectures represent any optimal design point (AVR definitely does not). A constant cycle of innovation is what characterize all technology progress.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago
Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. A lot of embedded devices and white goods are profitable to build and sell in the economies of scale, because they can reuse an old microcontroller design like the AVR, which is not the pinnacle anymore, but that's been proven over decades to be robust and reliable for specific use cases. Technology progress is happening regardless, but not all products benefit from switching to the new shiny. Especially legacy boring products. Some AVR perks like 5V tolerant I/O, and pins able to sink high currents, is something rarely found on newer more modern ARM or RISC-V chips which tend to be more "fragile" in some regards. So this is why sich older chips could still be advantageous.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  > So this is why sich older chips could still be advantageous Yup. I just found myself having to buffer an ESP32's output with an LS245!! because the old-school LED display I needed to drive required more current on its logic inputs than the ESP could source. An AVR would have driven it just fine. And before anyone asked why I used a 74LS245 instead of a more appropriate level converter, I had to go with what's in stock these days and this design will have at most 3 units built.
nousermane 4y ago
AVR might be not optimal in mathematical sense, but it feels so nice: - Tons of registers, up to a point where there are attiny parts with no RAM, and they are fairly usable; - Great code density for embedded - single-instruction atomic GPIO bit sets/bit resets, branch-if-bit-set/reset, etc; - In general, pretty approachable instruction set, if one fancies writing some assembly/machine code directly, while GCC also targets this ISA without issues; - Brilliant JTAG-like hardware debugging interface that uses zero extra pins (reset pin is reused), and hardware-wise, interfacing requires serial port + one diode, that's it [0] [0] https://github.com/dcwbrown/dwire-debug https://github.com/dcwbrown/dwire-debug
tgv 4y ago
What innovation is needed for 8 bit controllers? If you need something more powerful, get another controller: there are plenty. Are they less hardened, too expensive, or voltage-sensitive? Then that's where to look for innovation.

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

Let's not let perfect be the enemy of good. A lot of embedded devices and white goods are profitable to build and sell in the economies of scale, because they can reuse an old microcontroller design like the AVR, which is not the pinnacle anymore, but that's been proven over decades to be robust and reliable for specific use cases. Technology progress is happening regardless, but not all products benefit from switching to the new shiny. Especially legacy boring products. Some AVR perks like 5V tolerant I/O, and pins able to sink high currents, is something rarely found on newer more modern ARM or RISC-V chips which tend to be more "fragile" in some regards. So this is why sich older chips could still be advantageous.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
> So this is why sich older chips could still be advantageous Yup. I just found myself having to buffer an ESP32's output with an LS245!! because the old-school LED display I needed to drive required more current on its logic inputs than the ESP could source. An AVR would have driven it just fine. And before anyone asked why I used a 74LS245 instead of a more appropriate level converter, I had to go with what's in stock these days and this design will have at most 3 units built.

nousermane 4y ago

AVR might be not optimal in mathematical sense, but it feels so nice: - Tons of registers, up to a point where there are attiny parts with no RAM, and they are fairly usable; - Great code density for embedded - single-instruction atomic GPIO bit sets/bit resets, branch-if-bit-set/reset, etc; - In general, pretty approachable instruction set, if one fancies writing some assembly/machine code directly, while GCC also targets this ISA without issues; - Brilliant JTAG-like hardware debugging interface that uses zero extra pins (reset pin is reused), and hardware-wise, interfacing requires serial port + one diode, that's it [0] [0] https://github.com/dcwbrown/dwire-debug https://github.com/dcwbrown/dwire-debug

tgv 4y ago

What innovation is needed for 8 bit controllers? If you need something more powerful, get another controller: there are plenty. Are they less hardened, too expensive, or voltage-sensitive? Then that's where to look for innovation.