6 ms·

Given the list of things that could go horribly wrong with self driving vehicles, incidents like these are only a minor, harmless inconvenience. The more immed

by ra7 4y ago

Given the list of things that could go horribly wrong with self driving vehicles, incidents like these are only a minor, harmless inconvenience. The more immediate concern is self driving vehicles that are clearly not ready to be on public roads being allowed to test (or not being pulled off the roads).

al_borland 4y ago
I'd be curious on the statistics related to new under-developed FSD software vs a new teenage driver. The only way for either of these things to get better is through real-world experience.
- jvanderbot 4y ago
  I wouldn't get in the car with a new teenage driver, nor will I enable self-driving on my cars for a long, long time. And I work in robotics.
  - enriquto 4y ago
    Yet every day you get in the road with new teenager drivers (and drunk people, and idiots of all sorts). Doesn't that scare you? Driving is terrifying.
    - al_borland 4y ago
      Every time I hear people say they don't trust anyone, I wonder if they drive, as it requires an insane level of trust in the rest of humanity.
      - jvanderbot 4y ago
        I am the person I trust the most in my immediate vicinity. Removing me sounds like a downgrade in trust in the overall experience. To my selfish self.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      Yes, it does. Luckily, I can drive defensively against other actors since my vehicle is essentially a bunch of armor, safety gear, and also an escape means. But how does one defend themselves when the vehicle does not want to do so due to inexperience or negligence? Best you can do is hope it doesn't decide for you that your infant's carseat is the best place to collide with a semi it just noticed because it was gray in fog, and oh by the way the CEO decided not to use lidar or radar, and oh this particular ice patch was not in the training set. If you don't trust lvl 5 in those conditions, you don't really trust lvl 5.
- dbcurtis 4y ago
  Actually, autonomous driving stacks can get better doing millions of miles in simulation. The teen, not so much.
  - seoaeu 4y ago
    Target practice on pedestrians and stationary objects? Just because self driving software can get better from simulation doesn’t mean it will
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Actually, autonomous driving stacks can get better doing millions of miles in simulation. The teen, not so much. Have they not already completed many millions of miles in simulation, back in 2018? To me, it looks like self-diving capabilities have reached a maxima. The resources poured into it have barely been needle movers in objective metrics.
    - extheat 4y ago
      Disagree. It’s easy to see how far FSD has progressed, there’s lots of videos to document how far it’s gone from then and today. It’s also not easy to say they’ve reached the point of diminishing returns (which generally takes a massive amount of data to hit, even GPT3 has not hit it) as it’s not clear how much of FSD is powered by heuristic based code and what is NNs. Judging by some of the discussions there’s still a significant amount of C/C++ code in the loop that could be improved by moving them to NNs.
      - lelanthran 4y ago
        > Disagree. It’s easy to see how far FSD has progressed, there’s lots of videos to document how far it’s gone from then and today. Yeah, but videos aren't objective metrics. For me, an objective metric is "went $FOO miles in $BAR conditions without needing any intervention". What would you consider an objective metric?
        ra7 4y ago
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > The only way for either of these things to get better is through real-world experience if you are going to make that argument, you have to explain why we are socialising losses and privatising profits (again) so some number of people will be injured of killed while self driving cars gain experience, and then private corporations will extract profit from it?
burstmode 4y ago
> incidents like these are only a minor, harmless inconvenience. Until there is a emergency vehicle thats unable to get through.
- denysvitali 4y ago
  Humans aren't any better at letting energency vehicles pass...
  - smcl 4y ago
    A human behind the wheel of a car is absolutely better at letting an emergency vehicle pass than a completely immobilised self-driving car
    - denysvitali 4y ago
      You haven't driven in the same places I did then :)

by ra7 4y ago

al_borland 4y ago

I'd be curious on the statistics related to new under-developed FSD software vs a new teenage driver. The only way for either of these things to get better is through real-world experience.

jvanderbot 4y ago
I wouldn't get in the car with a new teenage driver, nor will I enable self-driving on my cars for a long, long time. And I work in robotics.
- enriquto 4y ago
  Yet every day you get in the road with new teenager drivers (and drunk people, and idiots of all sorts). Doesn't that scare you? Driving is terrifying.
  - al_borland 4y ago
    Every time I hear people say they don't trust anyone, I wonder if they drive, as it requires an insane level of trust in the rest of humanity.
    - jvanderbot 4y ago
      I am the person I trust the most in my immediate vicinity. Removing me sounds like a downgrade in trust in the overall experience. To my selfish self.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - jvanderbot 4y ago
    Yes, it does. Luckily, I can drive defensively against other actors since my vehicle is essentially a bunch of armor, safety gear, and also an escape means. But how does one defend themselves when the vehicle does not want to do so due to inexperience or negligence? Best you can do is hope it doesn't decide for you that your infant's carseat is the best place to collide with a semi it just noticed because it was gray in fog, and oh by the way the CEO decided not to use lidar or radar, and oh this particular ice patch was not in the training set. If you don't trust lvl 5 in those conditions, you don't really trust lvl 5.
dbcurtis 4y ago
Actually, autonomous driving stacks can get better doing millions of miles in simulation. The teen, not so much.
- seoaeu 4y ago
  Target practice on pedestrians and stationary objects? Just because self driving software can get better from simulation doesn’t mean it will
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > Actually, autonomous driving stacks can get better doing millions of miles in simulation. The teen, not so much. Have they not already completed many millions of miles in simulation, back in 2018? To me, it looks like self-diving capabilities have reached a maxima. The resources poured into it have barely been needle movers in objective metrics.
  - extheat 4y ago
    Disagree. It’s easy to see how far FSD has progressed, there’s lots of videos to document how far it’s gone from then and today. It’s also not easy to say they’ve reached the point of diminishing returns (which generally takes a massive amount of data to hit, even GPT3 has not hit it) as it’s not clear how much of FSD is powered by heuristic based code and what is NNs. Judging by some of the discussions there’s still a significant amount of C/C++ code in the loop that could be improved by moving them to NNs.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Disagree. It’s easy to see how far FSD has progressed, there’s lots of videos to document how far it’s gone from then and today. Yeah, but videos aren't objective metrics. For me, an objective metric is "went $FOO miles in $BAR conditions without needing any intervention". What would you consider an objective metric?
      - ra7 4y ago
ClumsyPilot 4y ago
> The only way for either of these things to get better is through real-world experience if you are going to make that argument, you have to explain why we are socialising losses and privatising profits (again) so some number of people will be injured of killed while self driving cars gain experience, and then private corporations will extract profit from it?

burstmode 4y ago

> incidents like these are only a minor, harmless inconvenience. Until there is a emergency vehicle thats unable to get through.

denysvitali 4y ago
Humans aren't any better at letting energency vehicles pass...
- smcl 4y ago
  A human behind the wheel of a car is absolutely better at letting an emergency vehicle pass than a completely immobilised self-driving car
  - denysvitali 4y ago
    You haven't driven in the same places I did then :)