4 ms·

I've been in your shoes many times. I worked for many months, solving a problem that I thought needed solving, and then sought users to pay for it. All of those

by daenz 4y ago

I've been in your shoes many times. I worked for many months, solving a problem that I thought needed solving, and then sought users to pay for it. All of those attempts never resulted in success. My most current project though, I am doing things differently. I talked to people and listened to what they needed. I saw an opportunity in what they were asking for, so I started building, while letting them use it as soon as it was even a tiny bit functional. I only invested my time building when there was a positive signal that people would pay for it. I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, and you've probably heard this advice before. I was like that too, and I ignored it. But it really does seem to work.

elpakal 4y ago
Good advice and something I wish I would have been told earlier. I went through a YC Startup School session a while back and there was a session about how to get your first customers - I can’t remember who it was (maybe Seibel?), but he (paraphrasing) answered it with something like “why are you building something if you haven’t talked to your customers”. It’s really stuck with me along with the “build something people want” thing.
- ffhhj 4y ago
  > why are you building something if you haven’t talked to your customers * because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage * because customers won't get the idea without a mvp * because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse * because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea
  - kimchisoup 4y ago
    > because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage Talk to your customers about their problems and their needs, not the solution itself. The solution can remain a secret. > because customers won't get the idea without a mvp Again, figure out the customers problems first. > because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse Don't reveal it until it's ready to be revealed. > because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea If customers are asking for features, then there's your demand right there. Strategise on how you want to address it.
  - vfulco2 4y ago
    because, depending on the customers, they do not know the technologies to help them exist, or they mistakenly believe are only available to their big kahuna, deep-pocketed competitors.
  - hnlmorg 4y ago
    > because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage If it's that easy to replicate then what's to stop them from copying you and eating your market share once you've launched? > because customers won't get the idea without a mvp If that's true then you have to ask yourself if you're actually solving a problem people have or designing a solution in search of a problem. Which then comes back to the GPs advice about speaking to your customers. > because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse I guess that's possible but often I see the reverse: engineers spending forever refining their idea because they're scared to release anything until it's perfect. At least by revealing your idea you're committing to a release early and often model that would see actual users on your platform. > because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea Sorry but I don't really understand the point you're making here. If you're saying customers will ask for more practical features then surely that's a good thing? The opposite of that problem is spending months building something users don't want nor need. Which again, comes back to the GPs advice about speaking to your customers. If you're concerned that people will tell you to "get a job" then that could happen regardless of whether you announce your project or not. I don't really see how secrecy would affect the opinions of those kind of narrow minded individuals. Plus why should those comments even matter in the first place when they're clearly not relevant to your task at hand?
    - dmkirwan 4y ago
      +1. I used to take the same position as ffhhj on this and I learned the hard way to talk to customers first before doing anything. I'm not saying that building in stealth mode without talking to customers can't work, I just believe it greatly reduces your chances of success. Incidentally, I think the equally common advice of "solve a problem that you have yourself" is coming from the same place: you can't solve a problem without understanding your users.
      - user_7832 4y ago
        > Incidentally, I think the equally common advice of "solve a problem that you have yourself" is coming from the same place: you can't solve a problem without understanding your users. So does this mean that it's okay to start developing a product if you yourself have such an (acute) problem even if you don't check for/with external customers first?
  - f6v 4y ago
    The moment you try to go to market is when you realize that your IPO is probably not happening any time soon.
jrumbut 4y ago
For me, the heavy lifting here is being done by you having a network of people that recognize you as the right person to build the thing they need (productivity tool in this instance). Based on my (limited) experience with startups I would rather have this than a network of funders or great developers or almost anything else you can accumulate before you start.
ColinHayhurst 4y ago
The people who'll appreciate and tolerate your MVP, are a very small subset of your target market that have serious pains to address and/or substantial gains to be made. Unless you are solving your own problem, and have pains/gains that strongly match with that small subset you will be struggling on the wrong beachhead. You are likely to solve an aspect of the wider problem but with little chance of getting much further. If you don't listen to people you'll need to be very lucky with loyal supporters, or a very rare visionary with incredible talent and commitment. People generally won't or don't reveal their deep pains and needs (gains) until you probe and engage in direct research through conversation.
- zhangruinan 4y ago
  re: The people who'll appreciate and tolerate your MVP, are a very small subset of your target market that have serious pains to address and/or substantial gains to be made. I guess the real problem is how to find these small group of potential passionates for your mvp

by daenz 4y ago

elpakal 4y ago

Good advice and something I wish I would have been told earlier. I went through a YC Startup School session a while back and there was a session about how to get your first customers - I can’t remember who it was (maybe Seibel?), but he (paraphrasing) answered it with something like “why are you building something if you haven’t talked to your customers”. It’s really stuck with me along with the “build something people want” thing.

ffhhj 4y ago
> why are you building something if you haven’t talked to your customers * because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage * because customers won't get the idea without a mvp * because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse * because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea
- kimchisoup 4y ago
  > because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage Talk to your customers about their problems and their needs, not the solution itself. The solution can remain a secret. > because customers won't get the idea without a mvp Again, figure out the customers problems first. > because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse Don't reveal it until it's ready to be revealed. > because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea If customers are asking for features, then there's your demand right there. Strategise on how you want to address it.
- vfulco2 4y ago
  because, depending on the customers, they do not know the technologies to help them exist, or they mistakenly believe are only available to their big kahuna, deep-pocketed competitors.
- hnlmorg 4y ago
  > because it's a secret and you don't want competitors to get advantage If it's that easy to replicate then what's to stop them from copying you and eating your market share once you've launched? > because customers won't get the idea without a mvp If that's true then you have to ask yourself if you're actually solving a problem people have or designing a solution in search of a problem. Which then comes back to the GPs advice about speaking to your customers. > because revealing your idea might reduce your impulse I guess that's possible but often I see the reverse: engineers spending forever refining their idea because they're scared to release anything until it's perfect. At least by revealing your idea you're committing to a release early and often model that would see actual users on your platform. > because customers will ask for all kind of features and change your idea into something else, more practical, like "get a job" instead of dreaming in your great idea Sorry but I don't really understand the point you're making here. If you're saying customers will ask for more practical features then surely that's a good thing? The opposite of that problem is spending months building something users don't want nor need. Which again, comes back to the GPs advice about speaking to your customers. If you're concerned that people will tell you to "get a job" then that could happen regardless of whether you announce your project or not. I don't really see how secrecy would affect the opinions of those kind of narrow minded individuals. Plus why should those comments even matter in the first place when they're clearly not relevant to your task at hand?
  - dmkirwan 4y ago
    +1. I used to take the same position as ffhhj on this and I learned the hard way to talk to customers first before doing anything. I'm not saying that building in stealth mode without talking to customers can't work, I just believe it greatly reduces your chances of success. Incidentally, I think the equally common advice of "solve a problem that you have yourself" is coming from the same place: you can't solve a problem without understanding your users.
    - user_7832 4y ago
      > Incidentally, I think the equally common advice of "solve a problem that you have yourself" is coming from the same place: you can't solve a problem without understanding your users. So does this mean that it's okay to start developing a product if you yourself have such an (acute) problem even if you don't check for/with external customers first?
- f6v 4y ago
  The moment you try to go to market is when you realize that your IPO is probably not happening any time soon.

jrumbut 4y ago

For me, the heavy lifting here is being done by you having a network of people that recognize you as the right person to build the thing they need (productivity tool in this instance). Based on my (limited) experience with startups I would rather have this than a network of funders or great developers or almost anything else you can accumulate before you start.

ColinHayhurst 4y ago

The people who'll appreciate and tolerate your MVP, are a very small subset of your target market that have serious pains to address and/or substantial gains to be made. Unless you are solving your own problem, and have pains/gains that strongly match with that small subset you will be struggling on the wrong beachhead. You are likely to solve an aspect of the wider problem but with little chance of getting much further. If you don't listen to people you'll need to be very lucky with loyal supporters, or a very rare visionary with incredible talent and commitment. People generally won't or don't reveal their deep pains and needs (gains) until you probe and engage in direct research through conversation.

zhangruinan 4y ago
re: The people who'll appreciate and tolerate your MVP, are a very small subset of your target market that have serious pains to address and/or substantial gains to be made. I guess the real problem is how to find these small group of potential passionates for your mvp