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In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unc

In the US, the dairy industry tried this and thankfully lost (in California): The Animal Legal Defense Fund represented Miyoko’s Kitchen in its challenge of unconstitutional restrictions placed on plant-based dairy products’ marketing and labeling Miyoko makes vegan cheese and brought the California Department of Food and Agriculture to court to challenge their ban on the term "cheese" to represent her products. She won. https://aldf.org/article/miyokos-victorious-in-first-amendment-lawsuit-against-california-department-of-food-and-agriculture/ https://aldf.org/article/miyokos-victorious-in-first-amendme...

xdennis 4y ago
That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.
- autarch 4y ago
  Yes, this is a great business idea! Would you like to fund my "vegan cheese from dairy" company? I'll give you a 10% stake for $10M USD.
- jefftk 4y ago
  The ruling was that they could call it things like "vegan cheese", not an unqualified "cheese".
  - xdennis 4y ago
    So then we should be able to use the term "real vegan cheese", but not an unqualified "vegan cheese".
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. I think the analog you’re looking for would be “fake vegan cheese”, or to make it less double-negativey we could just say “dairy cheese” which would be a perfectly understandable modifier on cheese just like how “vegan cheese” is a perfectly understandable modifier. If vegan cheese is a problem i’d like to hear your take on “electric car”
      - burnished 4y ago
        'Car' really just refers to the comparment right? The ICE is merely implied :)
        kennywinker 4y ago
        Carmpartment? Indeed
        burnished 4y ago
        No no no, thats when you live in your self driving car.
      - cheese_goddess 4y ago
        > I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. "Real vegan cheese" should not be a problem as long as you're selling a real product. The problems would begin if you were selling real cheese as "Really vegan cheese".
        kennywinker 4y ago
        I don’t think the phrase “real vegan cheese” is linguistically clear in any way. Is the “real” about the “vegan” part, the “cheese” part, or the “vegan cheese” part? I.e. “real dog food” has nothing to do with the realness of the dogs, it’s about the “food”. But then in the sentence “real prada bag” the “real” is about the “prada” portion not about the “bag” portion. “Real” can modify either the modifier or the noun. “Really” makes the sentence more clear, because it adds emphasis to the “vegan” modifier on “cheese” - it wouldn’t apply to the “cheese” part directly. I.e. in the sentence “really big cheese” the “really” is clearly adding emphasis to the “big”.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - saalweachter 4y ago
      "better than vegan cheese" should walk the line of accuracy, deception, and marketing.
      - HKH2 4y ago
        I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!
        qbrass 4y ago
        I Can't Believe It's Not 'I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!'!
        Ekaros 4y ago
        Would that be actually horrible non-vegan cheese? Finally having honesty in marketing?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- k8si 4y ago
  I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    Ah yes, when something is confusing, blame the user. Classic.
    - iforgotpassword 4y ago
      I've never seen anything more confusing then the two words "vegan cheese". Even after consulting with a dozen scientists I couldn't figure out what it's supposed to mean. So I bought it and surprisingly enough, I didn't end up with cheese made from milk as expected, but with cheese that was actually vegan! Could it be me? No, obviously it's somebody else's fault. Like it always is. It's never me.
      - ouid 4y ago
        you're assuming what you want to without reading the comments carefully. The "user" was tricked into buying vegan sausages. No one said that they were called vegan sausages.
        iforgotpassword 4y ago
        It doesn't matter whether we talk about cheese or sausages. The main point is that when you make laws that make it illegal to call something "vegan cheese" or "vegan steak", you are even more likely to be confronted with those confusing and misleading labels. If anything, the law should be the other way round, require a label that plain and simply says "vegan $product" prominently.
    - stjohnswarts 4y ago
- wumpus 4y ago
  > I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. I hope you weren't ill for too long.
- burnished 4y ago
  I get you're being outraged to be funny, but in seriousness no you aren't allowed to trick people into eating something they do not want to. Its important to have standards about clear communication on this, its easy enough to cause harm through accident or honest mistake let alone intentional malice.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Something tagged "VEGAN Cheese" in big characters with "This cheese is from our beloved cow Vega, not actually ugly soy stuff but is good for you, and remind that you started this war, not us" in tiny characters at the foot would receive a priceless publicity and lots of love.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  > I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. I don't even know how that is possible unless one is extremely unattentive. In my experience, vegan and vegetarian substitute products are universally located in the specialty section of the grocer and nearly universally advertise their plant-based status prominently. These products cost more than the real thing, so why try to fool anyone into thinking they're real meat? The market that is willing to pay more will do so precisely because they aren't real meat so that's what you want to advertise.
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    To be fair, "Beyond" products (Beyond burgers, beyond sausage) require grocery stores that carry them to place them in the meat section (though the store may also place them with the vegan meats). The idea is that people will get introduced to "close-tasting" plant-based meat alternatives, and it seems to have worked out pretty well for them, since they've been incredibly successful. It's been 18 years since I've eaten real meat, so I'm perhaps not the best judge, but they seem very similar to me.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm pretty sure they don't 'require' that. All the grocery stores near me that have Beyond keep it in the meat substitute section and don't have it in the meat section at all.
    - ouid 4y ago
      right, so the objective is to trick people.
    - cheese_goddess 4y ago
      For example: https://youtu.be/8uN8PUU5U2Q?t=1463 https://youtu.be/8uN8PUU5U2Q?t=1463 (Shows Beyond Burger placed next to meat burgers in a French supermarket).
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  Please, no. Vegans already have to scan all the ingredients for nearly everything they buy with every purchase (yes, there are products labelled plant based that have animal products, "soy cheese" with caseine, etc.) Accidentally buying a "sausage" that wasn't to your taste could have happened even if it was animal product based. If the status quo changes so that non-vegans need to start reading ingredients sometimes, or they might end up buying food that isn't enjoyable to them, that's a positive in my mind. People should be more conscious about "how the sausage is made" so to speak.
- myvoiceismypass 4y ago
  Curious which brand of vegan sausage you got tricked into buying.
- 31835843 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cheese_goddess 4y ago
Why is this fortunate? Miyioko makes nut paste and calls it "cheese". It's fortunate that she can keep selling her product under false assumptions? To be clear, the false assumptions are that her product is cheese, when it's not, and that it tastes, smells or feels like cheese, when it doesn't.

xdennis 4y ago

That would be completely fair, assuming the reverse is true as well. That is, being able to sell real cheese as "vegan cheese" to trick vegans into eating it. I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. They don't deserve protection either.

autarch 4y ago
Yes, this is a great business idea! Would you like to fund my "vegan cheese from dairy" company? I'll give you a 10% stake for $10M USD.
jefftk 4y ago
The ruling was that they could call it things like "vegan cheese", not an unqualified "cheese".
- xdennis 4y ago
  So then we should be able to use the term "real vegan cheese", but not an unqualified "vegan cheese".
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. I think the analog you’re looking for would be “fake vegan cheese”, or to make it less double-negativey we could just say “dairy cheese” which would be a perfectly understandable modifier on cheese just like how “vegan cheese” is a perfectly understandable modifier. If vegan cheese is a problem i’d like to hear your take on “electric car”
    - burnished 4y ago
      'Car' really just refers to the comparment right? The ICE is merely implied :)
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        Carmpartment? Indeed
        burnished 4y ago
        No no no, thats when you live in your self driving car.
    - cheese_goddess 4y ago
      > I think “real” is a bit of a problem there because if vegan cheese is real it means it’s really vegan. "Real vegan cheese" should not be a problem as long as you're selling a real product. The problems would begin if you were selling real cheese as "Really vegan cheese".
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        I don’t think the phrase “real vegan cheese” is linguistically clear in any way. Is the “real” about the “vegan” part, the “cheese” part, or the “vegan cheese” part? I.e. “real dog food” has nothing to do with the realness of the dogs, it’s about the “food”. But then in the sentence “real prada bag” the “real” is about the “prada” portion not about the “bag” portion. “Real” can modify either the modifier or the noun. “Really” makes the sentence more clear, because it adds emphasis to the “vegan” modifier on “cheese” - it wouldn’t apply to the “cheese” part directly. I.e. in the sentence “really big cheese” the “really” is clearly adding emphasis to the “big”.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - saalweachter 4y ago
    "better than vegan cheese" should walk the line of accuracy, deception, and marketing.
    - HKH2 4y ago
      I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!
      - qbrass 4y ago
        I Can't Believe It's Not 'I Can Believe It's Not Vegan Cheese!'!
      - Ekaros 4y ago
        Would that be actually horrible non-vegan cheese? Finally having honesty in marketing?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
k8si 4y ago
I imagine this was probably user error on your part. The vegan cheese is usually on the other end of the grocery store from the real cheese, and also usually says 'vegan' prominently, and also there are only like 2-3 brands that make vegan cheese (Miyoko, Daiya, maybe 1 other?). And vegans still usually have to read the ingredients to make sure. Non-vegans could probably do the same if it were that important.
- kelnos 4y ago
  Ah yes, when something is confusing, blame the user. Classic.
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    I've never seen anything more confusing then the two words "vegan cheese". Even after consulting with a dozen scientists I couldn't figure out what it's supposed to mean. So I bought it and surprisingly enough, I didn't end up with cheese made from milk as expected, but with cheese that was actually vegan! Could it be me? No, obviously it's somebody else's fault. Like it always is. It's never me.
    - ouid 4y ago
      you're assuming what you want to without reading the comments carefully. The "user" was tricked into buying vegan sausages. No one said that they were called vegan sausages.
      - iforgotpassword 4y ago
        It doesn't matter whether we talk about cheese or sausages. The main point is that when you make laws that make it illegal to call something "vegan cheese" or "vegan steak", you are even more likely to be confronted with those confusing and misleading labels. If anything, the law should be the other way round, require a label that plain and simply says "vegan $product" prominently.
  - stjohnswarts 4y ago
wumpus 4y ago
> I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. I hope you weren't ill for too long.
burnished 4y ago
I get you're being outraged to be funny, but in seriousness no you aren't allowed to trick people into eating something they do not want to. Its important to have standards about clear communication on this, its easy enough to cause harm through accident or honest mistake let alone intentional malice.
pvaldes 4y ago
Something tagged "VEGAN Cheese" in big characters with "This cheese is from our beloved cow Vega, not actually ugly soy stuff but is good for you, and remind that you started this war, not us" in tiny characters at the foot would receive a priceless publicity and lots of love.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
> I was tricked into buying vegan sausages. I don't even know how that is possible unless one is extremely unattentive. In my experience, vegan and vegetarian substitute products are universally located in the specialty section of the grocer and nearly universally advertise their plant-based status prominently. These products cost more than the real thing, so why try to fool anyone into thinking they're real meat? The market that is willing to pay more will do so precisely because they aren't real meat so that's what you want to advertise.
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  To be fair, "Beyond" products (Beyond burgers, beyond sausage) require grocery stores that carry them to place them in the meat section (though the store may also place them with the vegan meats). The idea is that people will get introduced to "close-tasting" plant-based meat alternatives, and it seems to have worked out pretty well for them, since they've been incredibly successful. It's been 18 years since I've eaten real meat, so I'm perhaps not the best judge, but they seem very similar to me.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    As I mentioned elsewhere, I'm pretty sure they don't 'require' that. All the grocery stores near me that have Beyond keep it in the meat substitute section and don't have it in the meat section at all.
  - ouid 4y ago
    right, so the objective is to trick people.
  - cheese_goddess 4y ago
    For example: https://youtu.be/8uN8PUU5U2Q?t=1463 https://youtu.be/8uN8PUU5U2Q?t=1463 (Shows Beyond Burger placed next to meat burgers in a French supermarket).
pcthrowaway 4y ago
Please, no. Vegans already have to scan all the ingredients for nearly everything they buy with every purchase (yes, there are products labelled plant based that have animal products, "soy cheese" with caseine, etc.) Accidentally buying a "sausage" that wasn't to your taste could have happened even if it was animal product based. If the status quo changes so that non-vegans need to start reading ingredients sometimes, or they might end up buying food that isn't enjoyable to them, that's a positive in my mind. People should be more conscious about "how the sausage is made" so to speak.
myvoiceismypass 4y ago
Curious which brand of vegan sausage you got tricked into buying.
31835843 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cheese_goddess 4y ago

Why is this fortunate? Miyioko makes nut paste and calls it "cheese". It's fortunate that she can keep selling her product under false assumptions? To be clear, the false assumptions are that her product is cheese, when it's not, and that it tastes, smells or feels like cheese, when it doesn't.