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If the FBI comes knocking on Google's door and says they have a terrorist under surveillance, and they need to read his email in order to save a busload of scho

If the FBI comes knocking on Google's door and says they have a terrorist under surveillance, and they need to read his email in order to save a busload of schoolchildren from a bomb, should Google let them do it? Is it evil to read a bad person's email, or is it evil not to read it? That's why a clearly stated policy that says exactly when Google will or will not let a human look at your documents and email is important. "Don't be evil" is cute, but it's not a policy statement.

Retric 15y ago
It's federal law that Google needs to hand over everything they have when the FBI comes calling on these cases. So Google's only choices are hand over the content or wait 30 minutes until people show up and start dismantling their data-center and then go to jail.
- ceejayoz 15y ago
  It's federal law that Google needs to hand over everything in the scope of the warrant. No law requires Google to give the FBI "everything they have", especially if there isn't a court order.
  - Bud 15y ago
    Nor is the GP post accurate about what Google's options are, since it's obviously an option to bring in the lawyers, resist, and get a court order to block FBI's actions for a while, if Google were inclined to do so. I tend to scoff at the notion that FBI would start "dismantling data centers" in the manner described.
    - Retric 15y ago
      Note: This was about "Lulz Security group and any affiliated hackers" which means the FBI was far from a ticking time bomb scenario. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-se... The F.B.I. seized Web servers in a raid on a data center early Tuesday, causing several Web sites, including those run by the New York publisher Curbed Network, to go offline. ... “Our servers happened to be in with some naughty servers,” he said, adding that his sites were not the target of the raid. Curbed is working to get its sites back online, probably by Wednesday. PS: When the FBI shows up you have zero rights to prevent them from taking anything on site, the only thing a lawyers can do is prevent evidence from being used in a court case after the fact. Granted, at Google scale they are more concerned with backlash and it takes a lot of effort to confiscate that much hardware, but that's not going to stop them in the case of a major incident. Also, by failing to help you are breaking the law let alone trying to stop them.
byoung2 15y ago
If the FBI comes knocking on Google's door and says they have a terrorist under surveillance, and they need to read his email in order to save a busload of schoolchildren from a bomb, should Google let them do it? From the Policy: [When] We have a good faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of such information is reasonably necessary to (a) satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request About how and when they access your information: We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors and agents who need to know that information in order to process it on our behalf. These individuals are bound by confidentiality obligations and may be subject to discipline, including termination and criminal prosecution, if they fail to meet these obligations. That "need to know that information" seems to restrict casual access, with the threat of termination to back it up. All of these are more specific declarations in line with a general "don't be evil" policy.
- jemfinch 15y ago
  A very real threat of termination: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369188,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369188,00.asp
dspeyer 15y ago
Every such request gets individually checked over by the lawyers. Many get pushed back on. http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/userdata/ http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/...

If the FBI comes knocking on Google's door and says they have a terrorist under surveillance, and they need to read his email in order to save a busload of schoolchildren from a bomb, should Google let them do it? Is it evil to read a bad person's email, or is it evil not to read it? That's why a clearly stated policy that says exactly when Google will or will not let a human look at your documents and email is important. "Don't be evil" is cute, but it's not a policy statement.

Retric 15y ago

It's federal law that Google needs to hand over everything they have when the FBI comes calling on these cases. So Google's only choices are hand over the content or wait 30 minutes until people show up and start dismantling their data-center and then go to jail.

ceejayoz 15y ago
It's federal law that Google needs to hand over everything in the scope of the warrant. No law requires Google to give the FBI "everything they have", especially if there isn't a court order.
- Bud 15y ago
  Nor is the GP post accurate about what Google's options are, since it's obviously an option to bring in the lawyers, resist, and get a court order to block FBI's actions for a while, if Google were inclined to do so. I tend to scoff at the notion that FBI would start "dismantling data centers" in the manner described.
  - Retric 15y ago
    Note: This was about "Lulz Security group and any affiliated hackers" which means the FBI was far from a ticking time bomb scenario. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-servers-knocking-sites-offline/ http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/f-b-i-seizes-web-se... The F.B.I. seized Web servers in a raid on a data center early Tuesday, causing several Web sites, including those run by the New York publisher Curbed Network, to go offline. ... “Our servers happened to be in with some naughty servers,” he said, adding that his sites were not the target of the raid. Curbed is working to get its sites back online, probably by Wednesday. PS: When the FBI shows up you have zero rights to prevent them from taking anything on site, the only thing a lawyers can do is prevent evidence from being used in a court case after the fact. Granted, at Google scale they are more concerned with backlash and it takes a lot of effort to confiscate that much hardware, but that's not going to stop them in the case of a major incident. Also, by failing to help you are breaking the law let alone trying to stop them.

byoung2 15y ago

If the FBI comes knocking on Google's door and says they have a terrorist under surveillance, and they need to read his email in order to save a busload of schoolchildren from a bomb, should Google let them do it? From the Policy: [When] We have a good faith belief that access, use, preservation or disclosure of such information is reasonably necessary to (a) satisfy any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request About how and when they access your information: We restrict access to personal information to Google employees, contractors and agents who need to know that information in order to process it on our behalf. These individuals are bound by confidentiality obligations and may be subject to discipline, including termination and criminal prosecution, if they fail to meet these obligations. That "need to know that information" seems to restrict casual access, with the threat of termination to back it up. All of these are more specific declarations in line with a general "don't be evil" policy.

jemfinch 15y ago
A very real threat of termination: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369188,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2369188,00.asp

dspeyer 15y ago

Every such request gets individually checked over by the lawyers. Many get pushed back on. http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/userdata/ http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/governmentrequests/...