4 ms·

I'd put microbiome research high up on my list of things which will turn out to be junk science in a few years. A lot of the actual numbers in this are pretty t

I'd put microbiome research high up on my list of things which will turn out to be junk science in a few years. A lot of the actual numbers in this are pretty tenuous. Primates have 80 species of bacteria and city dwellers have 50? Wow, stop the presses. A few years ago the fashionable thing was colonic irrigation (see https://journals.lww.com/ajg/fulltext/2009/11000/clinical_effects_of_colonic_cleansing_for_general.32.aspx https://journals.lww.com/ajg/fulltext/2009/11000/clinical_ef...). Now it just seems the pendulum has swung the other way and we need more crap in our colons, not less. We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria.

actually_a_dog 4y ago
Given that the ratio of bacterial to human cells in a typical human is about 1:1, I'd wager you're wrong on that. This sounds rather like a "shallow dismissal" that buts up against the gudelines here, as well. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dhzhzjsbevs 4y ago
I'll take that bet. I think we're going to find the opposite in a few years.
corrral 4y ago
> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria. Truly, "eat less trash; eat more veggies; eat less total; and move around at least an hour a day" is such good advice for most of us in "the West" that following it somewhat well would provide 100x more benefit than the next-closest thing. Plastic additives? Gut microbes? Fructose versus sucrose? Balance of omega fatty acids? Specific exercise routines? Forget all that unless you're already eating really well and staying active daily, which very few of us are. When I read articles about these kinds of things and start to get the urge to act on them, I try to remind myself that I should go do a few squats or walk around the block a couple times instead.
throwaway202022 4y ago
> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria. Aside from things like infectious diseases, we're not healthier than ever. We have better medicine than ever, but disease states that were once rarities have become commonplace in our modern world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease By the way, these are diseases which cannot all be blamed on "being too fat and too sedentary", as even skinny people can develop type 2 diabetes. Unheard of centuries ago.
- wizofaus 4y ago
  This is true, but lifestyle diseases are somewhat easier to avoid than infectious diseases (plus all the various other things that could easily kill you in your first decade or so in bygone eras). I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc.
  - throwaway202022 4y ago
    > I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc. It's a choice for many, but I think it's not a fully informed one. If I'd known in my teens and early twenties what I know now, there is a zero percent chance I would have eaten and lived the way that I did. These things don't seem to hit people until the point that their personal health is affected, and sometimes not even then.
    - wizofaus 4y ago

actually_a_dog 4y ago

Given that the ratio of bacterial to human cells in a typical human is about 1:1, I'd wager you're wrong on that. This sounds rather like a "shallow dismissal" that buts up against the gudelines here, as well. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991899/ https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dhzhzjsbevs 4y ago

I'll take that bet. I think we're going to find the opposite in a few years.

corrral 4y ago

> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria. Truly, "eat less trash; eat more veggies; eat less total; and move around at least an hour a day" is such good advice for most of us in "the West" that following it somewhat well would provide 100x more benefit than the next-closest thing. Plastic additives? Gut microbes? Fructose versus sucrose? Balance of omega fatty acids? Specific exercise routines? Forget all that unless you're already eating really well and staying active daily, which very few of us are. When I read articles about these kinds of things and start to get the urge to act on them, I try to remind myself that I should go do a few squats or walk around the block a couple times instead.

throwaway202022 4y ago

> We're looking for reasons why we feel sick all the time but the reality is beyond basic things like being too fat and too sedentary, we are healthier than ever, and many many people had wretched miserable lives of chronic pain before modernity. The expectation of health is a modern conceit and this research is just a reflection of the constant anxiety that there is something wrong with us all - a cultural hypochondria. Aside from things like infectious diseases, we're not healthier than ever. We have better medicine than ever, but disease states that were once rarities have become commonplace in our modern world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease By the way, these are diseases which cannot all be blamed on "being too fat and too sedentary", as even skinny people can develop type 2 diabetes. Unheard of centuries ago.

wizofaus 4y ago
This is true, but lifestyle diseases are somewhat easier to avoid than infectious diseases (plus all the various other things that could easily kill you in your first decade or so in bygone eras). I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc.
- throwaway202022 4y ago
  > I'd almost say lifestyle diseases seem to be, to a large degree, a choice - maybe not directly, but as a society we accept that if we want to enjoy all the privileges of modern technology and food availability etc., then we pay for it with heart disease or diabetes or certain cancers etc. It's a choice for many, but I think it's not a fully informed one. If I'd known in my teens and early twenties what I know now, there is a zero percent chance I would have eaten and lived the way that I did. These things don't seem to hit people until the point that their personal health is affected, and sometimes not even then.
  - wizofaus 4y ago