6 ms·
Blacklist is not a racist word
- seba_dos1 4y agoIt's not, but insisting on using it even though there are perfectly fine alternatives and you know that there's a sizeable chunk of people that considers it racist is just being an asshole.
- chimineycricket 4y agoIf you let the minority dictate your life it's gonna cause trouble. What if nazis start saying that they love "mainline" branch because it's meinline and that reminds them of Adolf. Ok lets remove mainline. Remember the whole ordeal with the "ok" hand sign? That's what happens when you let the minority control you, and that wasn't even a real case of racism.
- seba_dos1 4y ago> What if nazis start saying that they love "mainline" branch because it's meinline and that reminds them of Adolf. Ok lets remove mainline. You see, the thing about culture is that it's rapidly evolving and not necessarily rational (which is perfectly fine). If the word "mainline" would become associated with nazis commonly enough, I'd definitely want to avoid its usage despite of there being nothing wrong it, just like I'm not going to use swastikas just because it's an ancient symbol of well-being. So no, "blacklist" isn't racist, but if we can reduce the ugly associations that our language may be implying, then insisting on not doing that surely doesn't present you in a good light.
- al_mandi 4y agoWhy is a rapidly evolving, irrational culture perfectly fine? It sounds quite dangerous and self destructive to me. If you're going to live on eggshells being scared of what a fringe minority decides on a whim, then I don't know what to say.
- seba_dos1 4y agoBecause that's what culture is and has always been and everything is fine. Nobody is living on eggshells just because words can change meanings and associations over time. To a well adjusted person, it's a non-issue.
- antiRadical 4y ago
- antiRadical 4y agoI'd say those people who suddenly make innocent common words "racist" are the assholes. They're extremely privileged and act like a totalitarian regime. What's scary is that they believe they're on the right side.
- spacemanmatt 4y ago> act like a totalitarian regime That is dangerous overstatement.
- insickness 4y ago> That is dangerous overstatement. That is a hyperbolic statement.
- spacemanmatt 4y agoNo, it isn't.
- antiRadical 4y agoYou're wrong. Do you know the origin of political correctness? Stalin and Nazis loved that. "Blacklist is racist" is indeed a dangerous overstatement.
- dang 4y agoWe've banned this account for using HN primarily (exclusively, actually) for ideological battle. We don't allow that here, regardless of what ideology you're for or against. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- antiRadical 4y ago> regardless of what ideology you're for or against This is totally untrue and everybody knows that.
- knighthack 4y ago...A "sizeable chunk of people" consider the word 'blacklist' racist? What's this "sizeable chunk"? Where do these people congregate?
- spacemanmatt 4y agoOh boy, unattributed editorial, very credible.
- valbaca 4y agoWho wrote this??
- antiRadical 4y agoApparently "blacklist" is not a racist word.
- oceanswave 4y agoIt’s just a major coincidence that whitelist is the opposite of being placed on a deny list
- antiRadical 4y agoNo it's not. Whitelist was coined after blacklist.
- rvz 4y agoStill waiting for Mastercard to change their absolutely 'unacceptable', 'offensive' and somewhat 'oppressive' name.
- potiuper 4y agoIf master card no longer offers credit cards, then any slave account could be discredited occurring with deactivated debit cards.
- antiRadical 4y ago"Maincard"
- Already__Taken 4y agostablecard /mysides
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- dunefox 4y agoAlso 'toxic' and 'problematic' and whatever thought-crimes I forgot.
- rajman187 4y agoEnglish language should be canceled because colonialism etc
- nerpderp82 4y agoNot but it has racist connotations, you really want to go out of your way to educate everyone on the etymology of a word because of an antiwoke crusade? It is the same reason that polite people don't continue to use the word, "niggardly".
- antiRadical 4y ago> it has racist connotations Come on, everybody knows this is not true.
- chimineycricket 4y agoWhat are the connotations? People don't say niggardly because the pronunciation of the word is literally there. Are you saying people shouldn't say the word "blacklight" because it refers to black? Black is part of blacklight, and on its own does not mean anything racist, unlike the first part of "niggardly". >you really want to go out of your way to educate everyone on the etymology of a word because of an antiwoke crusade What's wrong with people voicing their opinion in a debate fashion?
- car_analogy 4y agoPlease don't use "crusade" as a negative. The crusades were difficult fights for liberation of various European countries against Muslim colonialism, which had already stolen much of their land and enslaved their people [1,2]. Using them as a negative synonym is very offensive and problematic. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Muslim_world#European_slaves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery_in_the_Musl... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary
- al_mandi 4y agoOf course the word crusade has a negative connotation. The trails of blood and destruction they left are well known and documented. As per your links, the enslavement that happened were due to war, so the same as what the Europeans did.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- devxpy 4y agoI was wondering why all of a sudden the default github branch was “main”
- oceanghost 4y agoWhat's dumb about that is, I'm sure it refers to the definition of master as: adjective main; principal. "the apartment's master bathroom has a free-standing oval bathtub"
- bb88 4y agoSo what I didn't know was the origin of the word "master" in relation to housing. "The phrase "master bedroom" first appeared in the 1926 Sears catalog, according to the real estate blog Trelora. It was a feature of a $4,398 Dutch colonial home, the most expensive in the catalog, referring to a large second floor bedroom with a private bathroom." https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_971e3114fec2c583d17a32ac8ce43724 https://lite.cnn.com/en/article/h_971e3114fec2c583d17a32ac8c... 1926 was only 60 years after the civil war, an era where the evils of slavery will still felt by those, also a year that the KKK still had marches in DC. https://www.loc.gov/resource/cph.3b39318/ https://www.loc.gov/resource/cph.3b39318/ The KKK even had political influence: "In the case of the Democratic Party, the key battleground was the 1924 Convention. The Klan endorsed William Gibbs McAdoo, the frontrunner for the nomination." http://www1.assumption.edu/ahc/1920s/Eugenics/Klan.html http://www1.assumption.edu/ahc/1920s/Eugenics/Klan.html So the only question that remains was Sears and Roebuck racist? Some think they were, others point to the fact that they enabled blacks to still purchase from the Sears catalog. Another option is that Sears was just marketing the house to the consumers that existed at the time. In 1926, what rich KKK sympathizer wouldn't like to sleep in the "Master Bedroom" gloriousness of the 1860's?
- oceanghost 4y agoThat's all very interesting but I don't think it has anything to do with if the phrase "master" is racist. A quick search reveals the following English idioms: master master plan master of ceremonies master key master class master baker master of arts baggage master past master grand master zen master puppet master master of fine arts master of science master sergeant chess master old master master builder master bedroom harbor master master of literature master copy master cylinder master at arms master of library science sailing master master race question master master of arts in library science master hand master file master of divinity master of theology master mason master of architecture master of arts in teaching master of education property master master switch drill master master lease master in business master of the rolls master cast ballet master master in public affairs master mechanic master stroke master vibrator master chief petty officer master of laws riding master harbour master job master rattlesnake master assay master master notes master of science in engineering master and servant wreck master dance master games master kong the master master plans bus master master in business administration master mind master tape senior master sergeant station master the master master slave mint master special master wagon master forage master jack of all trades and master of none master in chancery master keys quarter master three master two master be own master been own master dock master dutch master fencing master master electrician master of the horse writing master bush master corrected master cast gang master is own master master classes master gland master lode master switches master tap master two step exercise test
- jared_pdx 4y ago
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y agoIt baffles me this kind of language and name calling appears on HN. Let's discuss the matter and hand and refrain from ad hominem attacks, it serves no purpose.
- antiRadical 4y ago> Is it really so hard to see that the continued usage of "black = bad, white = good" could be problematic? Why could it be problematic? That association exists in every culture and language. If you know that and you still hate it, the optimal solution would be not to call Europeans/Caucasians "white" and Africans/Negroids "black." It's as simple as that. Why do you want to keep calling people by color?
- polotics 4y agoThe book and movie "a dry white season" beg to differ. From an African perspective I guess it is totally valid that white is the colour of death, dessicated bones baked by the sun, cleaned by the wind.
- bragr 4y agoI'm not against the idea of inclusive language in general, but given that companies and projects have limited resources, I'm not convinced the level of impact on diversity and inclusion is worth the level of effort that seems to go into it. I'd rather see people creating apprenticeship roles and/or sourcing interns from non-traditional sources if we really want to see change. There's probably an untapped resource pool in every city of smart, talented highschool kids in disadvantage school that don't have any current pathway into tech, and giving them that onramp will do more for D&I than inclusive language.
- epgui 4y ago> Some radical people have suddenly started to think blacklist and whitelist are racially insensitive. Are they really racist words? The answer is a no. In my books, these people aren't "radical", they're simply "wrong". Calling them "radical" gives the impression that being mindful about the language we choose to accept socially is in general radical. Of course it isn't.
- polotics 4y agoTalking about words and their meaning, "radical" comes from the latin for root, so a true radical should get to the bottom of things, work from first principles... Let's have a go! It is dark at night, and black is dark. The one thing that's clear is "white" human skin ain't white, and "black" ain't black either. So... saying black or white to categorize any member of the human race is incorrect, using "blacklist" for something that can't see the light is kinda correct.
- kjeetgill 4y agoI'm actually incredibly fascinated by this tortured comment. In a comment advocating for getting to the bottom of things and first principles of "words and their meanings" of all things (whatever that means here, I don't know), you: a) misinterpret what any current usage of radical would mean b) proceed to, from what I presume your idea of presume principles is, chain together a half hearted series of arbitrary connections c) continue to skip over any well understood meaning of whiee and black in the context of race for not being literal enough? d) but conclude that a very unusual, uncommon, tenuous metaphors about blacklists being for blocking light being more correct somehow? There's just so much going on in such a short comment. I really hope it was on purpose, it's Terry Pratchett-esq. Like isn't black a literal color first and foremost before being an allusion to darkness and light? Even if it's not the precise color, isn't that ... closer via whatever your first principles are here?
- epgui 4y ago(The comment you're replying to didn't make sense to me either, but it is true that in the literal, pedantic world, black isn't really a colour. It's true that "black" is just a word we use to describe how our brains interpret the near-absence of light in a patch of our field of vision. In other words, black is the absence of colour/light.)
- antiRadical 4y ago