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So the original Top Gun wasn't political? Weird why there were Navy recruiting booths in halls. Must be a coincidence. Name me a war movie that isn't political

by N1H1L 4y ago

So the original Top Gun wasn't political? Weird why there were Navy recruiting booths in halls. Must be a coincidence. Name me a war movie that isn't political.

inglor_cz 4y ago
They Shall Not Grow Old. 1917. Possibly Dunkirk. Even Downfall is pretty light on politics, even though it takes place in the Fuehrerbunker itself.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > Even Downfall is pretty light on politics, even though it takes place in the Fuehrerbunker itself. Downfall takes an anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi stance. Just because we all "agree" with the message doesn't change the fact that Hitler is seen as a weak, degenerating, hypocritical man throughout the film. Who happens to be a good boss to the main character. ----- Finally, the secretary openly apologizes for her role in Nazi-ism. The film makes it clear that even "good people" (like the secretary), who end up helping the Nazis in little ways are still partially responsible for the evils the Nazis caused. The main character never killed anybody. But she helped Hitler write his last will (as well as Joseph Goebbels's last will), and other jobs that a secretary should do. The film is innately bringing to focus the role of the "typical" Nazi. Not the far right but just the little supporters and their role in Nazism. The "good people on the other side", if you will. And they're openly apologetic. Because even those little ways of getting a job and helping out in little ways was still Nazism, and in support of that awful ideology.
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    Being anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi is 'political' now? They're simply acknowledging the reality that Nazism was an absolute, unmitigated disaster - even, and most surprisingly, for those who might have foolishly expected to benefit from it. That's what those apologetic attitudes are about. If you really wanted to draft a relevant political message from the whole Nazi thing, it would have to be "how the heck do we avoid falling into this awful trap again". The premise of Downfall is not good for that. The film mostly sticks to the historical sources - the crazy, delusional rants that everyone loves to make memes about actually happened, Hitler really said those things. He was quite weak in those circumstances.
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      > the crazy, delusional rants that everyone loves to make memes about actually happened I'm presuming that you're talking about the "Steiner's Attack" meme/scene from the movie. This scene "actually happened" according to Russian historians, who were writing for a single audience (Stalin). Their testimony is not to be trusted. I agree with you that its part of the historical record, but specifically part of the _RUSSIAN_ historical record. Alas, that's the breaks. Russia captured Berlin with their army before the USA/British forces could. But there's plenty of "political decisions" made with respect to the movie (ie: whether to honor the Russian telling of events, or to focus upon say Traudl Junge's book... which didn't mention this "Hitler flies into a rage over Steiner's Attack"). ------- The Goring Telegram (which was in the movie, but rarely memed) is 100% accepted history IIRC, and probably serves as a better example of how Hitler really acted.
    - N1H1L 4y ago
      Absolutely it's political. Hitler was a political actor at the end of the day, as a ruler of a nation. And Nazism is a political ideology. Just because we all agree that Nazism is repugnant (and that too is debatable - several far right US organizations are still today pro-Nazi) doesn't make an anti-Nazi film apolitical.
  - N1H1L 4y ago
    This. Just because we agree with something - doesn't mean it's apolitical. Even a purely romantic film such as Brokeback Mountain, when it was released was called political by Christian conservatives. I don't agree with their views at all, but in this case they were right. Because anything that can be targeted by legislation, is political in it's definition. Also, multiple war movies, such as Rambo for example are explicitly political. So, this recent pearl clutching about Hollywood political honestly makes no sense.
RhysU 4y ago
Saving Private Ryan? Though it's been a few years since I watched it.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  That film literally starts with some soldiers shooting surrendering enemies (a war crime) on the Beach of Normandy. It also takes the unusual stance to bring up the gore (charred bodies from flamethrowers, etc. etc.), which is almost certainly political. (How much gore to show, are we glorifying violence? Etc. etc.)
  - RhysU 4y ago
    But what was the agenda that it was pushing for the audiences watching it at the time it was released?
    - N1H1L 4y ago
      That the US actions were all positive in WW2. That the US were the heroes. This agenda is so seeped in modern culture today, that it's difficult to see today. Doesn't mean that a war film is agenda free though.
      - dragontamer 4y ago
        Somewhat the opposite. Saving Private Ryan shows US / Allied soldiers murdering surrendering troops, which is 100% a political move (and _VERY_ unusual for a war movie to show).

by N1H1L 4y ago

So the original Top Gun wasn't political? Weird why there were Navy recruiting booths in halls. Must be a coincidence. Name me a war movie that isn't political.

inglor_cz 4y ago

They Shall Not Grow Old. 1917. Possibly Dunkirk. Even Downfall is pretty light on politics, even though it takes place in the Fuehrerbunker itself.

dragontamer 4y ago
> Even Downfall is pretty light on politics, even though it takes place in the Fuehrerbunker itself. Downfall takes an anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi stance. Just because we all "agree" with the message doesn't change the fact that Hitler is seen as a weak, degenerating, hypocritical man throughout the film. Who happens to be a good boss to the main character. ----- Finally, the secretary openly apologizes for her role in Nazi-ism. The film makes it clear that even "good people" (like the secretary), who end up helping the Nazis in little ways are still partially responsible for the evils the Nazis caused. The main character never killed anybody. But she helped Hitler write his last will (as well as Joseph Goebbels's last will), and other jobs that a secretary should do. The film is innately bringing to focus the role of the "typical" Nazi. Not the far right but just the little supporters and their role in Nazism. The "good people on the other side", if you will. And they're openly apologetic. Because even those little ways of getting a job and helping out in little ways was still Nazism, and in support of that awful ideology.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  Being anti-Hitler and anti-Nazi is 'political' now? They're simply acknowledging the reality that Nazism was an absolute, unmitigated disaster - even, and most surprisingly, for those who might have foolishly expected to benefit from it. That's what those apologetic attitudes are about. If you really wanted to draft a relevant political message from the whole Nazi thing, it would have to be "how the heck do we avoid falling into this awful trap again". The premise of Downfall is not good for that. The film mostly sticks to the historical sources - the crazy, delusional rants that everyone loves to make memes about actually happened, Hitler really said those things. He was quite weak in those circumstances.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    > the crazy, delusional rants that everyone loves to make memes about actually happened I'm presuming that you're talking about the "Steiner's Attack" meme/scene from the movie. This scene "actually happened" according to Russian historians, who were writing for a single audience (Stalin). Their testimony is not to be trusted. I agree with you that its part of the historical record, but specifically part of the _RUSSIAN_ historical record. Alas, that's the breaks. Russia captured Berlin with their army before the USA/British forces could. But there's plenty of "political decisions" made with respect to the movie (ie: whether to honor the Russian telling of events, or to focus upon say Traudl Junge's book... which didn't mention this "Hitler flies into a rage over Steiner's Attack"). ------- The Goring Telegram (which was in the movie, but rarely memed) is 100% accepted history IIRC, and probably serves as a better example of how Hitler really acted.
  - N1H1L 4y ago
    Absolutely it's political. Hitler was a political actor at the end of the day, as a ruler of a nation. And Nazism is a political ideology. Just because we all agree that Nazism is repugnant (and that too is debatable - several far right US organizations are still today pro-Nazi) doesn't make an anti-Nazi film apolitical.
- N1H1L 4y ago
  This. Just because we agree with something - doesn't mean it's apolitical. Even a purely romantic film such as Brokeback Mountain, when it was released was called political by Christian conservatives. I don't agree with their views at all, but in this case they were right. Because anything that can be targeted by legislation, is political in it's definition. Also, multiple war movies, such as Rambo for example are explicitly political. So, this recent pearl clutching about Hollywood political honestly makes no sense.

RhysU 4y ago

Saving Private Ryan? Though it's been a few years since I watched it.

dragontamer 4y ago
That film literally starts with some soldiers shooting surrendering enemies (a war crime) on the Beach of Normandy. It also takes the unusual stance to bring up the gore (charred bodies from flamethrowers, etc. etc.), which is almost certainly political. (How much gore to show, are we glorifying violence? Etc. etc.)
- RhysU 4y ago
  But what was the agenda that it was pushing for the audiences watching it at the time it was released?
  - N1H1L 4y ago
    That the US actions were all positive in WW2. That the US were the heroes. This agenda is so seeped in modern culture today, that it's difficult to see today. Doesn't mean that a war film is agenda free though.
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      Somewhat the opposite. Saving Private Ryan shows US / Allied soldiers murdering surrendering troops, which is 100% a political move (and _VERY_ unusual for a war movie to show).