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California is next to the ocean, so if we really wanted to secure the water supply we have technological answers available. Nuclear desalination has been used a

California is next to the ocean, so if we really wanted to secure the water supply we have technological answers available. Nuclear desalination has been used at scale across the globe for decades, and it's not hard to imagine a less centralized solution powered by solar or wind. https://www.iaea.org/topics/non-electric-applications/nuclear-desalination https://www.iaea.org/topics/non-electric-applications/nuclea...

Victerius 4y ago
The state needs to start overruling the local NIMBYs and build the desal plants the rest of the state needs. And the regulators need to chill out: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-rejects-plan-desalination-plant-2022-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-reject...
- bragr 4y ago
  It's not really the NIMBYs, it's the Coastal Commission which has a singular mission to protect the coasts no matter the larger big picture issues that keeps killing desal plants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coastal_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coastal_Commissio...
  - nullc 4y ago
    > keeps killing desal plants. and diablo canyon nuclear plant, too. Desal could be run in a less energy efficient manner that reduced the salinity of the discharge water, but my understanding is that as far as the coastal commission is concerned no amount is acceptable.
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    My thought about that is the coastal commission needs to think hard because decisions like that are likely to result in their power being curtailed.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  San Diego got its desal plant in the husk of an old coal plant, and it has been the GREATEST thing. We are much closer to water independence than anyone else in the state and not having to listen about constant drought nagging has been FANTASTIC
  - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
    strong agree! it comes out to just about 7% of the total water though doesn't it?
    - tomc1985 4y ago
      Is it really that little? The last few droughts to roll through California have been a non-issue. But maybe that's because domestic (non-agricultural) water consumption is like 5% of total water use
      - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
        Yup! It's actually 8% according to a recent NYTimes article about the plant https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/us/san-diego-drinking-water.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/us/san-diego-drinking-wat...
- dntrkv 4y ago
  We don't need desal, we have plenty of water for people to live here. The vast majority of water goes to agriculture. If we were just a bit more selective in what we farmed, we could reduce our water usage by a significant amount.
  - Victerius 4y ago
    "We have enough water, we just need to stop growing food and starve instead." I mean, yes, but no. We could cut on beef, I agree with that, but then the electorate will be enraged at their expensive steaks.
    - lrem 4y ago
      Dryer places don't starve. But they don't export almonds.
    - s0rce 4y ago
      No, just stop growing stuff we can't eat or stuff we export. And then water more efficiently with drip. This is so wildly wrong. Alfalfa is useless.
    - pkaye 4y ago
      States with plenty of water could grow some of the crops.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > If we were just a bit more selective in what we farmed, we could reduce our water usage by a significant amount. If California had spent the last 20 years (let alone 50) building out desal plants, we wouldn't need to be selective.
  - yazaddaruvala 4y ago
    > We don't need desal, we have plenty of water for people to live here. For how long? Why are you advocating for scarcity? Scarcity causes conflict. We live in a world where we don't have to fear scarcity. Why not advocate for desal AND better water use?
wildmanx 4y ago
Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact, for decades already. But (almost) nobody is doing anything. Cause freedom, I guess. What's a golf course here and there in the desert, for the better off, right? Or what about an artificial lagoon? Freedom! Edit: Oh, there is a recent John Oliver episode about this one too. Maybe finally somebody will notice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxew5XUVbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxew5XUVbQ
- JTbane 4y ago
  Once the Ogallala starts drying up I guess everyone will just leave Nebraska. /s
- not-my-account 4y ago
  Well, what are the alternatives? In reality, we will need a plurality of solutions, coming from tech and policy. Also, this is a website that has a glut of techies, so expect tech-based solutions to be suggested!
  - wildmanx 4y ago
    > Well, what are the alternatives? The same as with any resource that you are overusing: Use less. You don't need golf courses in the middle of the desert. You don't need broken water access rights regulation that encourages wasting water. You can reduce water use in agriculture to a tiny fraction if you'd start viewing water as a precious resource and do this smarter. There is a lot you can do that's different from "let's keep wasting this resource, we can throw tech at it, ignore the consequences!"
    - creato 4y ago
      Desalination isn’t going to help agriculture anyways. I think it’s worth a few billion dollars to avoid an explosive potentially destabilizing political wedge issue.
29athrowaway 4y ago
Or we could tell the vineyards we need water not wine. Wine makes substantial money for the state but it doesn't make sense if nobody can live in it. Or the almond guys, or other types of unsustainable agriculture in the state.
- s0rce 4y ago
  Beef, pasture and animal feed crops are tremendous "wastes" of water. Much of it is also exported.
  - Jerrrry 4y ago
    are you actually comparing the utility of beef and almonds? In good faith?
    - s0rce 4y ago
      How is beef useful? If we truly have so little water we need to spend billions on desalination beef should be very very expensive. Huge numbers of people across the world live with beef as a rare luxury.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  Vineyards aren’t particularly water intensive, are they? Compared to things like almonds and alfalfa
  - 29athrowaway 4y ago
    They are among the top consumers in CA. They're going to pump aquifers dry.
    - thehappypm 4y ago
      Source?
      - 4y ago

Victerius 4y ago

The state needs to start overruling the local NIMBYs and build the desal plants the rest of the state needs. And the regulators need to chill out: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-rejects-plan-desalination-plant-2022-05-13/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/california-regulator-reject...

bragr 4y ago
It's not really the NIMBYs, it's the Coastal Commission which has a singular mission to protect the coasts no matter the larger big picture issues that keeps killing desal plants. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coastal_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Coastal_Commissio...
- nullc 4y ago
  > keeps killing desal plants. and diablo canyon nuclear plant, too. Desal could be run in a less energy efficient manner that reduced the salinity of the discharge water, but my understanding is that as far as the coastal commission is concerned no amount is acceptable.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  My thought about that is the coastal commission needs to think hard because decisions like that are likely to result in their power being curtailed.
tomc1985 4y ago
San Diego got its desal plant in the husk of an old coal plant, and it has been the GREATEST thing. We are much closer to water independence than anyone else in the state and not having to listen about constant drought nagging has been FANTASTIC
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago
  strong agree! it comes out to just about 7% of the total water though doesn't it?
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    Is it really that little? The last few droughts to roll through California have been a non-issue. But maybe that's because domestic (non-agricultural) water consumption is like 5% of total water use
    - kylehotchkiss 4y ago
      Yup! It's actually 8% according to a recent NYTimes article about the plant https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/us/san-diego-drinking-water.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/29/us/san-diego-drinking-wat...
dntrkv 4y ago
We don't need desal, we have plenty of water for people to live here. The vast majority of water goes to agriculture. If we were just a bit more selective in what we farmed, we could reduce our water usage by a significant amount.
- Victerius 4y ago
  "We have enough water, we just need to stop growing food and starve instead." I mean, yes, but no. We could cut on beef, I agree with that, but then the electorate will be enraged at their expensive steaks.
  - lrem 4y ago
    Dryer places don't starve. But they don't export almonds.
  - s0rce 4y ago
    No, just stop growing stuff we can't eat or stuff we export. And then water more efficiently with drip. This is so wildly wrong. Alfalfa is useless.
  - pkaye 4y ago
    States with plenty of water could grow some of the crops.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > If we were just a bit more selective in what we farmed, we could reduce our water usage by a significant amount. If California had spent the last 20 years (let alone 50) building out desal plants, we wouldn't need to be selective.
- yazaddaruvala 4y ago
  > We don't need desal, we have plenty of water for people to live here. For how long? Why are you advocating for scarcity? Scarcity causes conflict. We live in a world where we don't have to fear scarcity. Why not advocate for desal AND better water use?

wildmanx 4y ago

Oh the typical techie solution to environmental problems. We can solve this with tech! Wait until the aquifers under North America run dry. That's where most irrigation pump up their ground water from. A few dry rivers and smaller lakes are nothing compared to what's going to happen. Forget your desalination plants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aquifers_in_the_United... And it's entirely predictable. In fact, for decades already. But (almost) nobody is doing anything. Cause freedom, I guess. What's a golf course here and there in the desert, for the better off, right? Or what about an artificial lagoon? Freedom! Edit: Oh, there is a recent John Oliver episode about this one too. Maybe finally somebody will notice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxew5XUVbQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtxew5XUVbQ

JTbane 4y ago
Once the Ogallala starts drying up I guess everyone will just leave Nebraska. /s
not-my-account 4y ago
Well, what are the alternatives? In reality, we will need a plurality of solutions, coming from tech and policy. Also, this is a website that has a glut of techies, so expect tech-based solutions to be suggested!
- wildmanx 4y ago
  > Well, what are the alternatives? The same as with any resource that you are overusing: Use less. You don't need golf courses in the middle of the desert. You don't need broken water access rights regulation that encourages wasting water. You can reduce water use in agriculture to a tiny fraction if you'd start viewing water as a precious resource and do this smarter. There is a lot you can do that's different from "let's keep wasting this resource, we can throw tech at it, ignore the consequences!"
  - creato 4y ago
    Desalination isn’t going to help agriculture anyways. I think it’s worth a few billion dollars to avoid an explosive potentially destabilizing political wedge issue.

29athrowaway 4y ago

Or we could tell the vineyards we need water not wine. Wine makes substantial money for the state but it doesn't make sense if nobody can live in it. Or the almond guys, or other types of unsustainable agriculture in the state.

s0rce 4y ago
Beef, pasture and animal feed crops are tremendous "wastes" of water. Much of it is also exported.
- Jerrrry 4y ago
  are you actually comparing the utility of beef and almonds? In good faith?
  - s0rce 4y ago
    How is beef useful? If we truly have so little water we need to spend billions on desalination beef should be very very expensive. Huge numbers of people across the world live with beef as a rare luxury.
thehappypm 4y ago
Vineyards aren’t particularly water intensive, are they? Compared to things like almonds and alfalfa
- 29athrowaway 4y ago
  They are among the top consumers in CA. They're going to pump aquifers dry.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    Source?
    - 4y ago