4 ms·

The factories that built most of the equipment in WW2 didn't exist prior to WW2. They were built because of it.

by cronix 4y ago

missedthecue 4y ago
And this would have happened Jones Act or not.
- corrral 4y ago
  I believe the poster was addressing your "we wouldn't be able to build enough ships anyway", not whether the Jones Act affected our ability to rapidly increase our manufacturing capacity during WWII.
tomohawk 4y ago
And we dismantled that equipment and sold it to overseas shipbuilders, giving them a huge advantage.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
andrewallbright 4y ago
I honestly do not understand how the mass mobilization of the US economy for war in the 1940s actually happened or operated. Was it bottom up, with factories competing to make products (trucks, ammo) for lend lease? Basically government used tax payer money to become a big buyer of things, incentivizing companies to reorient towards making those things? And then when the US entered the war, the types of contracts offered changed. Was it top down, with the government operating more like a command economy telling businesses what to make, and when? It wasn't a choice, it was a demand because the country is at war! These are two guesses I have. My mental model is based mostly on the movie "War Dogs." I'm sure it's a mix of both bottom up and top down. Maybe with a mix of cocktail parties with important industry business people and important government people chatting about would is feasible sprinkled in. I do not understand how the war time mobilization of the US economy actually happened. If anyone knows, I would appreciate a summary or a book recommendation. I think I have a topic for my next Wikipedia deep dive.
- drc500free 4y ago
  I think the difference is that the country was managed and run by a tight-knit kabal of ivy-league upper class people. It was a high-trust environment where someone could call up an acquaintance and just say "Bob, you need to change your factory over to tanks this week. Harry will send the schematics, and we'll figure out the fine grained details later." The origins of the CIA and FBI sound mind-boggling to modern ears. These days you only see that kind of high-trust procurement in the special operations community. Obviously there are some serious downsides to having a cabal of rich white dudes who went to the same schools run the administration of the whole country, but things could change direction a lot quicker.
- Hellbanevil 4y ago
  An good example is the former shipyard at Sausalito, CA. We needed ships. The government went in and built a huge shipyard. They hired private contractors, and built 24/7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinship) They needed workers. They hired Frank Loyd Wright to build huge buildings to house workers arriving mainly from the south. The huge apartments went up very quickly. There were few regulations. I imagine it was like the way China puts up huge projects. After the war, a lot of the workforce moved on to greener pastures. America used to have a lot of good blue collar jobs. The apartments are now used as Section 8 housing. Jump ahead to today. The town of Sausalito didn't like looking at low income Anchor-Outs. They didn't mind when Paul Allen moored in then same spot for months though on his mega-yacht. The town basically hired some dig bat who was related to a town council member to spit out a study on the dangers these Anchor-outs are doing to the Ell grass in Richardson bay. The town used that "cooked" study to confiscate boats, and crush them. The low income people basically went from boat dwellers to living in tents in Dunphy Park. I'm sorry about my tone, but I don't like it when authorities abuse their power, especially when it comes to the low income.
- asdff 4y ago
  It was a top down centrally planned economy. The federal government set quotas for production and prices. This was made possible through the war production board which converted civilian companies to wartime use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Production_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Production_Board
asdff 4y ago
Because we adopted a centrally planned economy, not unlike the communist states we villified after the war ended and we resumed freemarket capitalism in this country. I don't see the U.S. successfully doing that again today with the way the political landscape is fractured and the overall view of government in the eyes of many.

The factories that built most of the equipment in WW2 didn't exist prior to WW2. They were built because of it.

by cronix 4y ago

The factories that built most of the equipment in WW2 didn't exist prior to WW2. They were built because of it.

missedthecue 4y ago

And this would have happened Jones Act or not.

corrral 4y ago
I believe the poster was addressing your "we wouldn't be able to build enough ships anyway", not whether the Jones Act affected our ability to rapidly increase our manufacturing capacity during WWII.

tomohawk 4y ago

And we dismantled that equipment and sold it to overseas shipbuilders, giving them a huge advantage.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

andrewallbright 4y ago

I honestly do not understand how the mass mobilization of the US economy for war in the 1940s actually happened or operated. Was it bottom up, with factories competing to make products (trucks, ammo) for lend lease? Basically government used tax payer money to become a big buyer of things, incentivizing companies to reorient towards making those things? And then when the US entered the war, the types of contracts offered changed. Was it top down, with the government operating more like a command economy telling businesses what to make, and when? It wasn't a choice, it was a demand because the country is at war! These are two guesses I have. My mental model is based mostly on the movie "War Dogs." I'm sure it's a mix of both bottom up and top down. Maybe with a mix of cocktail parties with important industry business people and important government people chatting about would is feasible sprinkled in. I do not understand how the war time mobilization of the US economy actually happened. If anyone knows, I would appreciate a summary or a book recommendation. I think I have a topic for my next Wikipedia deep dive.

drc500free 4y ago
I think the difference is that the country was managed and run by a tight-knit kabal of ivy-league upper class people. It was a high-trust environment where someone could call up an acquaintance and just say "Bob, you need to change your factory over to tanks this week. Harry will send the schematics, and we'll figure out the fine grained details later." The origins of the CIA and FBI sound mind-boggling to modern ears. These days you only see that kind of high-trust procurement in the special operations community. Obviously there are some serious downsides to having a cabal of rich white dudes who went to the same schools run the administration of the whole country, but things could change direction a lot quicker.
Hellbanevil 4y ago
An good example is the former shipyard at Sausalito, CA. We needed ships. The government went in and built a huge shipyard. They hired private contractors, and built 24/7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinship) They needed workers. They hired Frank Loyd Wright to build huge buildings to house workers arriving mainly from the south. The huge apartments went up very quickly. There were few regulations. I imagine it was like the way China puts up huge projects. After the war, a lot of the workforce moved on to greener pastures. America used to have a lot of good blue collar jobs. The apartments are now used as Section 8 housing. Jump ahead to today. The town of Sausalito didn't like looking at low income Anchor-Outs. They didn't mind when Paul Allen moored in then same spot for months though on his mega-yacht. The town basically hired some dig bat who was related to a town council member to spit out a study on the dangers these Anchor-outs are doing to the Ell grass in Richardson bay. The town used that "cooked" study to confiscate boats, and crush them. The low income people basically went from boat dwellers to living in tents in Dunphy Park. I'm sorry about my tone, but I don't like it when authorities abuse their power, especially when it comes to the low income.
asdff 4y ago
It was a top down centrally planned economy. The federal government set quotas for production and prices. This was made possible through the war production board which converted civilian companies to wartime use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Production_Board https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Production_Board

asdff 4y ago

Because we adopted a centrally planned economy, not unlike the communist states we villified after the war ended and we resumed freemarket capitalism in this country. I don't see the U.S. successfully doing that again today with the way the political landscape is fractured and the overall view of government in the eyes of many.