4 ms·
The argument is that the right to abortion follows from the 14th Amendment's guarantee that "liberty" is not deprived without due process. This is linked to ot
by comex 4y ago
The argument is that the right to abortion follows from the 14th Amendment's guarantee that "liberty" is not deprived without due process. This is linked to other rights that were derived from the same clause, including contraception, cross-racial marriage, and same-sex intimacy and marriage. Some of the text you quoted also seems to hint at (but does not explicitly discuss) the other clauses of the 14th Amendment, the one about "privileges and immunities of citizens" and the one about "equal protection of the laws". Other parts you quoted are simply arguments for why abortion is part of "liberty".
Regarding your previous examples:
- Right to own property: In Kirchberg v. Feenstra, a law giving sole control of marital property to the husband was found unconstitutional under the Equal Protection Clause. So it's related to Roe v. Wade's Due Process argument, but not quite the same.
- Right to vote: This was explicitly granted by the 19th Amendment. Before that, the Supreme Court had ruled in Minor v. Happersett that the 14th Amendment's Privileges and Immunities Clause did not give women the right to vote, though one might imagine that the Roe court (or the Dobbs dissenters) would have disagreed (or would have found that right in a different part of the 14th Amendment).
- Right to divorce: I can't find any major Supreme Court cases trying to establish such a right. All fifty states allow for no-fault divorce, but that's grounded in state law and is only true as of 2010.
- mlindner 4y agoThe liberty argument flows both directions. You can't deprive liberty of unborn children.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y agoIt’s not a child or person until it’s born alive. Up until birth a fetus is a parasitic organism. If unwanted then the fetus is trespassing in the host body. If unwanted the parasite is robbing from the host. By these inconvertible truths if the fetus must be born then it must be tried for trespassing, battery, and theft and the counter party to conception must be held equally liable. Thus, the unwanted parasite must be terminated in order to preserve the rights of the host as plainly protected by the ninth, tenth, thirteenth and fourteenth amendments.
- mlindner 4y ago> It’s not a child or person until it’s born alive. Up until birth a fetus is a parasitic organism. And many many many people disagree with that idea. Denying that people disagree with that distorts your picture of the matter. So many on the left view this as some kind of patriarchal ruling, but in my experience it's conservative women who are more against abortion than conservative men.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y agoYour lack of a response to the majority of my comment could be construed as you arguing in bad faith. The distortion here is of your own. People are free to disagree with the personal choices free citizens make. People are not free to impose their beliefs on others and force them to carry or birth a parasite through coercion or force. Any conversation about forcing women to birth anything that does not include radical changes to: healthcare, social safety net, the best parental leave laws in the world, wide carve outs for incest, rape, medical problems, birth defects, litter reduction, to name a few things is a blatant exposition of the moral bankruptcy of the forced birthers seeking to impose their ideals on others through governmental violence. I haven’t met a forced birther yet that’s thought through all the complications of their grand scheme and come out the other side still a forced birther. Typically they just get mad and devolve into all sorts of fallacious statements, sometimes they storm off, and I’ve walked a few level headed people through enough of the realities of forced birth for them to autonomously realize that such laws cause so much suffering and cost so much in real economic and tax dollar terms that forced birth is regressive and will make the states it takes effect in worse places in all important measures like: infant mortality, student test scores, parental homicide, violent crime, etc— because the research on these topics is unanimous. Access to contraception whether condoms or third trimester abortions is an essential right to maintaining and strengthening a modern society. Anyone that doesn’t want to live in modern society is free to go build an island and reinvent the conservative turned libertarian ascent into liberalism wheel.
- mlindner 4y agoYour continued use of the word parasite to describe a living human being is pretty disgusting so I'm not going to continue to talk to you.
- specialist 4y agoThanks. This stuff breaks my head. Maybe one positive (very long term) outcome of this food fight is the rediscovery of the 9th Amendment and less reliance on the Due Process clause. That con argument that the right to an abortion is not in the Constitution baffles me. Um, exactly. The framers anticipated these kinds of circumstances. Hence the 9th Amendment.