4 ms·

Ask HN: As an URM where are the hand out jobs people mention all the time here

3 points by trwayurm 4y ago

Not trying to bait, I've lurked here enough and I'm trying to have a good faith discussion. As an URM who grew up in what would be considered the hood and went on to get a non-CS STEM degree (think eng/math/phys/chem,which is where my programming experience comes from) where are these jobs that people mention in anecdotal stories that URM are handed despite not being qualified? For all the diversity companies seem to signal, and everyone seems to complain about people being given jobs unfairly, my job search has not reflected that. Might be despite my STEM degree I'm not good enough, but the lack of interviews I'm landing means I'm being filtered out from the start. The way people make it out to be here, those jobs are handed out. So are companies BSing? HN comments BSing? or who is getting these URM jobs? Does anyone have any advice or willing to provide some mentorship? Thanks, on a throw away because this is embarrassing.

b20000 4y ago
STEM and CS/IT have been promoted as some magic solution to everyone’s career or employment issues, which is really annoying. STEM careers are very demanding and do not pay as well as you think compared to other fields like law or medicine. the reason you hear about STEM is that companies need lots of cheap labour. so they need lots of kids going into STEM so they can pay everyone less. when i look at levels.fyi and see the 1MM total comp packages i always wonder how many of those get hired in FAANG every year and what those people look like.
faangiq 4y ago
Apply to big companies. Super easy free money.
PaulHoule 4y ago
I think in the last six months there has been a state of flux and hiring has been on hold in some firms. General advice is that if you are not getting interviews then you need to debug your resume.
- trwayurm 4y ago
  Thanks, this seems to be my experience prior to the past 6 months. The current flux is the reason I'm asking now, worried I'm not going to be able to find anything for an extended time now.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Redact your personal details from your resume and post it. If we see that maybe we can tell you something useful.
    - trwayurm 4y ago
      I'm willing to send it to you for comments if you wouldn't mind. Rather not post it publicly as even with my name removed the experiences and school will narrow me down. Thanks for the feedback
      - PaulHoule 4y ago
        Go ahead.
mr90210 4y ago
Well, as a someone who barely spoke English, with a Computer Engineering degree, from a so called 3rd world continent (not Asia), with prior work experience in Software Development, who 3 years landed a job in Europe, my advice is: - Don’t expect any company to just hand you a job - Grind the fuck out. This shit ain’t EASY. Peace brother.
- trwayurm 4y ago
  I'm not expecting a hand out job, that seems to be the anecdotal story that goes around here when diversity is brought up. I just want more interview experience and to be given a fair shot.
georgia_peach 4y ago
Where are you applying? If you're in SoCal or Seattle, I hear people have a new job lined up the next day. NYC? Maybe a week or two. Rest of the country? Could be months. Actual degree and actual race would be appreciated. None of that is identifying information, and dancing around facts which are central to your question seems pretty sketchy.
- trwayurm 4y ago
  What seems sketchy, URM being Black/Hispanic. If you think I'm larping or baiting I'm more than willing to provide mods with an ID pic and degree. And rest of the country.
  - georgia_peach 4y ago
    What about the degree? I don't need photo evidence. Just the specific degree you have. I have a degree in computer engineering. It was no skin off my back to share that. It is weird that you chose to ballpark that.
    - trwayurm 4y ago
      Phys
      - georgia_peach 4y ago
        That's a better degree than compsci anyway. If you know your shit, but you're attached to "rest of the country," starting your own consultancy is also an option. There's a ton of work to be done out there. I started one 10 years ago. It's not google pay, but it's still very nice, and at this point in my life, they couldn't pay me enough to put up with all of the bean-counting & back-biting in corporate software development. > answer to your next question since i'm rate-limited: College is crucial for W2s--if only to get through the HR filter (why I asked in the first place)--but outside of that, people don't really care as long as you get the job done. Nobody (at least nobody with any sense) is going to ask John Carmack where he went to school and what he majored in. The work speaks for itself. Place an ad, follow the leads, take care of business, and you'll have more work than you want to deal with. "Somewhere else" businesses don't have FAANG-tier problems. Someone with a decent GPA in physics can probably handle it.
uberman 4y ago
The tech hiring landscape has been a little shaky as of late, but I would still expect you (or anyone else) to get interviews. If you are not getting interviews at all then perhaps your resume is not quite right. Many tech employers use screening services that pre-filter resumes. It might be the case that you are just not showcasing the terms that your potential employers are looking for. If you are a new grad, I would see if your university has a resume service that might offer suggestions. With respect to "unfair deference" I can't really directly speak to that but I can tell you what one larger employer uses a strategy. In an attempt to increase diversity at their place of work, they have shifted from "hire the best candidate" to "hire the least represented candidate from among all qualified candidates". Since they set the bar as to what constitutes a qualified candidate they can still ensure they get good talent but after that they seek diversity. This is not my employer, just a company I consulted with. I'll leave it to the individual to determine if they agree with this policy or not. I don't really have an opinion, other than that it seems a valid strategy to try to realize their goal of increased diversity.

3 points by trwayurm 4y ago

b20000 4y ago

STEM and CS/IT have been promoted as some magic solution to everyone’s career or employment issues, which is really annoying. STEM careers are very demanding and do not pay as well as you think compared to other fields like law or medicine. the reason you hear about STEM is that companies need lots of cheap labour. so they need lots of kids going into STEM so they can pay everyone less. when i look at levels.fyi and see the 1MM total comp packages i always wonder how many of those get hired in FAANG every year and what those people look like.

faangiq 4y ago

Apply to big companies. Super easy free money.

PaulHoule 4y ago

I think in the last six months there has been a state of flux and hiring has been on hold in some firms. General advice is that if you are not getting interviews then you need to debug your resume.

trwayurm 4y ago
Thanks, this seems to be my experience prior to the past 6 months. The current flux is the reason I'm asking now, worried I'm not going to be able to find anything for an extended time now.
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  Redact your personal details from your resume and post it. If we see that maybe we can tell you something useful.
  - trwayurm 4y ago
    I'm willing to send it to you for comments if you wouldn't mind. Rather not post it publicly as even with my name removed the experiences and school will narrow me down. Thanks for the feedback
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      Go ahead.

mr90210 4y ago

Well, as a someone who barely spoke English, with a Computer Engineering degree, from a so called 3rd world continent (not Asia), with prior work experience in Software Development, who 3 years landed a job in Europe, my advice is: - Don’t expect any company to just hand you a job - Grind the fuck out. This shit ain’t EASY. Peace brother.

trwayurm 4y ago
I'm not expecting a hand out job, that seems to be the anecdotal story that goes around here when diversity is brought up. I just want more interview experience and to be given a fair shot.

georgia_peach 4y ago

Where are you applying? If you're in SoCal or Seattle, I hear people have a new job lined up the next day. NYC? Maybe a week or two. Rest of the country? Could be months. Actual degree and actual race would be appreciated. None of that is identifying information, and dancing around facts which are central to your question seems pretty sketchy.

trwayurm 4y ago
What seems sketchy, URM being Black/Hispanic. If you think I'm larping or baiting I'm more than willing to provide mods with an ID pic and degree. And rest of the country.
- georgia_peach 4y ago
  What about the degree? I don't need photo evidence. Just the specific degree you have. I have a degree in computer engineering. It was no skin off my back to share that. It is weird that you chose to ballpark that.
  - trwayurm 4y ago
    Phys
    - georgia_peach 4y ago
      That's a better degree than compsci anyway. If you know your shit, but you're attached to "rest of the country," starting your own consultancy is also an option. There's a ton of work to be done out there. I started one 10 years ago. It's not google pay, but it's still very nice, and at this point in my life, they couldn't pay me enough to put up with all of the bean-counting & back-biting in corporate software development. > answer to your next question since i'm rate-limited: College is crucial for W2s--if only to get through the HR filter (why I asked in the first place)--but outside of that, people don't really care as long as you get the job done. Nobody (at least nobody with any sense) is going to ask John Carmack where he went to school and what he majored in. The work speaks for itself. Place an ad, follow the leads, take care of business, and you'll have more work than you want to deal with. "Somewhere else" businesses don't have FAANG-tier problems. Someone with a decent GPA in physics can probably handle it.

uberman 4y ago

The tech hiring landscape has been a little shaky as of late, but I would still expect you (or anyone else) to get interviews. If you are not getting interviews at all then perhaps your resume is not quite right. Many tech employers use screening services that pre-filter resumes. It might be the case that you are just not showcasing the terms that your potential employers are looking for. If you are a new grad, I would see if your university has a resume service that might offer suggestions. With respect to "unfair deference" I can't really directly speak to that but I can tell you what one larger employer uses a strategy. In an attempt to increase diversity at their place of work, they have shifted from "hire the best candidate" to "hire the least represented candidate from among all qualified candidates". Since they set the bar as to what constitutes a qualified candidate they can still ensure they get good talent but after that they seek diversity. This is not my employer, just a company I consulted with. I'll leave it to the individual to determine if they agree with this policy or not. I don't really have an opinion, other than that it seems a valid strategy to try to realize their goal of increased diversity.