6 ms·

HN is by and large reactionary.

spencerflem 4y ago
I don't know why you're being downvoted, this is correct. Just offering my support and the knowledge that not all programmers are assholes with more money than sense and a smug superiority that comes from assuming the whole world is an algorithm. Just most of them.
- Sakos 4y ago
  I generally try to avoid HN discussions about politics, geopolitics or anything related to human society, because there are some ass-backwards, heartless, libertarian people here who don't care about how outcomes affect people as long as it happens to fit with their ideology. Seeing the responses here makes me feel justified. The only reason why I come back is because the technical discussions are incredibly good.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    The thing about libertarianism is it has done more good for more people than any other ideology. Note that libertarianism leaves people free to care for others as much as they want to.
    - spencerflem 4y ago
      i was having a nice time griping until you showed up. Given how libertarians seem completely unconcerned with raising wages or protecting the environment it seems that amount is 0
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        I am a libertarian, and if you're familiar with my postings, I have made many environment protecting proposals that would be much more effective than the current ones. Also for improving other facets of our lives, like wages. I know there are many libertarians who give the philosophy a bad name. If you have something specific you'd like to ask about it, I'll try to give a good answer.
    - rmahan 4y ago
      [citation needed]
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        The United States. The first free market country, and the first to raise the standard of living of scores of millions of people out of poverty into the middle and even wealthy classes. The American people are also the most generous in the world, by donations to charity. I know that the popular view is the US is some sort of hellhole, but yet millions of people are trying to immigrate here, walking thousands of miles just to try.
        ironman1478 4y ago
        The people walking to America are doing it because they are coming from extremely violent countries where they are in immediate danger. My family came from Romania, a place where they jailed or beat my family members on a regular basis during communism, then had horrible brain drain and 0 opportunities post communism. People aren't emigrating from countries like Germany the way they are from El Salvador. Being better than a place where your life is in immediate danger or where there is ZERO economic opportunity is not much of an accomplishment. Please use correct comparisons when you are making statements like this. "The American people are also the most generous in the world, by donations to charity." Why can't we just setup government programs to fill the in the gaps that charities provide?
        WalterBright 4y ago
        The oceans are a major barrier to people walking here from other countries. Consider as well all the countries they walk through to get here. They come from Cuba, too, the socialist paradise. There are a lot of people from Romania in the Seattle area, I am friends with some. I am not unacquainted with their stories of how bad things were there. All I can say is welcome to the US! P.S. All my ancestors hail from various European countries that emigrated to the US, including Germany.
        4y ago
    - tombert 4y ago
      > The thing about libertarianism is it has done more good for more people than any other ideology. Presumably you mean political ideology, but I don't really know if I know what "libertarianism" actually means. I would need some citation that the Ayn-Rand-esque objectivist flavor of libertarianism has actually done any good for anyone. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's sort of the issue with the term. I might be more likely to agree if you changed the term "libertarianism" to "liberalism". Not the current "liberal" that basically means "democrat" in the US, but the more classical sense.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        Libertarianism as in free markets and the inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It includes the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Note that this precludes any right to harm others, defraud them, enslave them, etc. It precludes enshrining religion into the law. It includes all are equal under the law, women have an equal right to vote, gays can marry, people can smoke marijuana, etc. As with all philosophies, it doesn't give guidance to all situations, and should be leavened with pragmatism.
jahewson 4y ago
No it’s not. /s
Dracophoenix 4y ago
What's reactionary about applying checks and balances?
ohCh6zos 4y ago
Being reactionary is a good thing as it preserves the status quo.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, this is correct. Just offering my support and the knowledge that not all programmers are assholes with more money than sense and a smug superiority that comes from assuming the whole world is an algorithm. Just most of them.

Sakos 4y ago
I generally try to avoid HN discussions about politics, geopolitics or anything related to human society, because there are some ass-backwards, heartless, libertarian people here who don't care about how outcomes affect people as long as it happens to fit with their ideology. Seeing the responses here makes me feel justified. The only reason why I come back is because the technical discussions are incredibly good.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  The thing about libertarianism is it has done more good for more people than any other ideology. Note that libertarianism leaves people free to care for others as much as they want to.
  - spencerflem 4y ago
    i was having a nice time griping until you showed up. Given how libertarians seem completely unconcerned with raising wages or protecting the environment it seems that amount is 0
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      I am a libertarian, and if you're familiar with my postings, I have made many environment protecting proposals that would be much more effective than the current ones. Also for improving other facets of our lives, like wages. I know there are many libertarians who give the philosophy a bad name. If you have something specific you'd like to ask about it, I'll try to give a good answer.
  - rmahan 4y ago
    [citation needed]
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      The United States. The first free market country, and the first to raise the standard of living of scores of millions of people out of poverty into the middle and even wealthy classes. The American people are also the most generous in the world, by donations to charity. I know that the popular view is the US is some sort of hellhole, but yet millions of people are trying to immigrate here, walking thousands of miles just to try.
      - ironman1478 4y ago
        The people walking to America are doing it because they are coming from extremely violent countries where they are in immediate danger. My family came from Romania, a place where they jailed or beat my family members on a regular basis during communism, then had horrible brain drain and 0 opportunities post communism. People aren't emigrating from countries like Germany the way they are from El Salvador. Being better than a place where your life is in immediate danger or where there is ZERO economic opportunity is not much of an accomplishment. Please use correct comparisons when you are making statements like this. "The American people are also the most generous in the world, by donations to charity." Why can't we just setup government programs to fill the in the gaps that charities provide?
        WalterBright 4y ago
        The oceans are a major barrier to people walking here from other countries. Consider as well all the countries they walk through to get here. They come from Cuba, too, the socialist paradise. There are a lot of people from Romania in the Seattle area, I am friends with some. I am not unacquainted with their stories of how bad things were there. All I can say is welcome to the US! P.S. All my ancestors hail from various European countries that emigrated to the US, including Germany.
        4y ago
  - tombert 4y ago
    > The thing about libertarianism is it has done more good for more people than any other ideology. Presumably you mean political ideology, but I don't really know if I know what "libertarianism" actually means. I would need some citation that the Ayn-Rand-esque objectivist flavor of libertarianism has actually done any good for anyone. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's sort of the issue with the term. I might be more likely to agree if you changed the term "libertarianism" to "liberalism". Not the current "liberal" that basically means "democrat" in the US, but the more classical sense.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      Libertarianism as in free markets and the inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It includes the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Note that this precludes any right to harm others, defraud them, enslave them, etc. It precludes enshrining religion into the law. It includes all are equal under the law, women have an equal right to vote, gays can marry, people can smoke marijuana, etc. As with all philosophies, it doesn't give guidance to all situations, and should be leavened with pragmatism.

jahewson 4y ago

No it’s not. /s

Dracophoenix 4y ago

What's reactionary about applying checks and balances?

ohCh6zos 4y ago

Being reactionary is a good thing as it preserves the status quo.