4 ms·

Not the person you are responding to, but is there somewhere reputable offering these kinds of contracts to no-name retail investors like myself? I would absolu

Not the person you are responding to, but is there somewhere reputable offering these kinds of contracts to no-name retail investors like myself? I would absolutely load up on something like 12,000 - 15,000 USD bitcoin puts depending on the time decay people are offering and how certain I could be that they would actually let me exercise them, and not freeze trading or even go belly up during the crash. I am somewhat.. skeptical I will be able to exercise them on an primarily crypto exchange like Binance that has blocked trading during freefalls before that is structurally dependent on the price of crypto to some extent.

MacsHeadroom 4y ago
There are dozens of dApps where anyone with an internet connection and money can buy/sell puts and other options on BTC anonymously. They have full openly auditable reserves and all their code is open source and visible on their respective smartchains. Wanting an institution to provide a sub-par solution for this is a cop-out. Put up or shut-up.
- mattnewton 4y ago
  With a centralized service I don’t need a law degree, I can quickly ask an expert what my rights are and understand an option, and there is a (limited and slow, but existant) method to make myself whole in the event of a problem. Each dApp is its own special setup and it can be quite complicated to figure out exactly how it behaves, who to sue if it doesn’t, and who to pay money to find these things out for me. I hope you’ll forgive me for being worried about trusting that with any significant sum of money.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    Stop outsourcing protecting yourself.
    - mattnewton 4y ago
      No man is an island. I’d rather pay taxes for police and hire a plumber than live in the woods with a rifle and fetch my own water, given that there are only so many hours in a day to try and be an expert on everything.
      - benreesman 4y ago
        Ah, but the Randian elite is not concerned with such. Obviously the Galts of the world will have services, they’ll pay for them by running monetary policy as well as Greenspan did.
SilasX 4y ago
In the US, LedgerX[1] (now owned by FTX) is a reputable, regulated exchange. The longest-dated put I see for $15k is EOY 2022 and is trading at a spread of $2000-8000. You can buy puts at the $25k strike dated June 2023 for $4300-4800. [1] https://app.ledgerx.com/btc https://app.ledgerx.com/btc There was a link that doesn't require login but I forgot it.
- benreesman 4y ago
  I don’t know if SBF and I would ever get along personally, but you have to agree that the M&A strategy has been superb. As well as it needs to be when you’re up against Yi He, that chick gives Bill Gates nightmares: she’s a fucking force of nature.
  - aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
    > I don’t know if SBF and I would ever get along personally Are your court shoes laced?
  - SilasX 4y ago
    Did you mean to post that somewhere else? I’m not sure anything there relates to my comment.
- mattnewton 4y ago
  Thank you, this could be exactly what I was looking for, I will look into this.
  - SilasX 4y ago
    Glad to help! Late correction, though, I think I was reading the call side by accident, some of the puts are a lot cheaper. EOY 2022 $15k strike: $1700-2000 EOY 2022 $10k strike: $700-950 June 2023 $25k strike: $7400-7900
benreesman 4y ago
Depends on the size. At retail size counterparty risk of e.g. Binance or FTX is a talking point, not a legitimate concern. If you want to take a big position, talk to someone like Wintermute who has a big OTC desk, or if you want a better deal, find a friend of a friend. Someone you know knows a whale.
- mattnewton 4y ago
  I mean, my use of belly up is definitely hyperbole. But, that the position of say, 12,000 usd per coin expiring in December is a huge enough dip from current prices that it is likely to come true only in the event of a large crash, and during the last crash Binance froze withdrawals and there was a large backlog of “stuck” transactions on the blockchain. I don’t know how these options execute but if I have to move bitcoin on the blockchain to unwind the position I would be afraid of being able to actually unwind it at the most favorable price in a time window, making the risk actually higher than typical models. Or maybe I dont know what I am talking about and Binance options wouldn’t need to actually move coins on the chain to close out the position?
benreesman 4y ago
Also, not to pile on, but GP said 100-1000USD BTC. I’ll sell puts at that until my Saudi buds run out of money to lend me. You’re talking 12k-15k, which is a much more interesting options chain.
- mattnewton 4y ago
  Right, I’ve learned the hard way that if my models are that out of line with the market then my models are wrong in ways that will cost me a lot of money. Satoshi himself could reveal to me the future price of bitcoin is intrinsically around $1,000 USD as a little understood fact of how the blockchain works, and I still wouldn’t trade on that today with prices where they are. Even a instantaneous divine revelation from God to all mankind would take a long time to propagate through the markets and you would lose your money in the meantime.
  - benreesman 4y ago
    I don’t know whether or not you’ve studied economics or financial mathematics, but you’ve concisely and concretely identified something called the Weak-Form Efficient Market Hypothesis. Maybe you already knew that, but if not you’re a natural.

MacsHeadroom 4y ago

There are dozens of dApps where anyone with an internet connection and money can buy/sell puts and other options on BTC anonymously. They have full openly auditable reserves and all their code is open source and visible on their respective smartchains. Wanting an institution to provide a sub-par solution for this is a cop-out. Put up or shut-up.

mattnewton 4y ago
With a centralized service I don’t need a law degree, I can quickly ask an expert what my rights are and understand an option, and there is a (limited and slow, but existant) method to make myself whole in the event of a problem. Each dApp is its own special setup and it can be quite complicated to figure out exactly how it behaves, who to sue if it doesn’t, and who to pay money to find these things out for me. I hope you’ll forgive me for being worried about trusting that with any significant sum of money.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  Stop outsourcing protecting yourself.
  - mattnewton 4y ago
    No man is an island. I’d rather pay taxes for police and hire a plumber than live in the woods with a rifle and fetch my own water, given that there are only so many hours in a day to try and be an expert on everything.
    - benreesman 4y ago
      Ah, but the Randian elite is not concerned with such. Obviously the Galts of the world will have services, they’ll pay for them by running monetary policy as well as Greenspan did.

SilasX 4y ago

In the US, LedgerX[1] (now owned by FTX) is a reputable, regulated exchange. The longest-dated put I see for $15k is EOY 2022 and is trading at a spread of $2000-8000. You can buy puts at the $25k strike dated June 2023 for $4300-4800. [1] https://app.ledgerx.com/btc https://app.ledgerx.com/btc There was a link that doesn't require login but I forgot it.

benreesman 4y ago
I don’t know if SBF and I would ever get along personally, but you have to agree that the M&A strategy has been superb. As well as it needs to be when you’re up against Yi He, that chick gives Bill Gates nightmares: she’s a fucking force of nature.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  > I don’t know if SBF and I would ever get along personally Are your court shoes laced?
- SilasX 4y ago
  Did you mean to post that somewhere else? I’m not sure anything there relates to my comment.
mattnewton 4y ago
Thank you, this could be exactly what I was looking for, I will look into this.
- SilasX 4y ago
  Glad to help! Late correction, though, I think I was reading the call side by accident, some of the puts are a lot cheaper. EOY 2022 $15k strike: $1700-2000 EOY 2022 $10k strike: $700-950 June 2023 $25k strike: $7400-7900

benreesman 4y ago

Depends on the size. At retail size counterparty risk of e.g. Binance or FTX is a talking point, not a legitimate concern. If you want to take a big position, talk to someone like Wintermute who has a big OTC desk, or if you want a better deal, find a friend of a friend. Someone you know knows a whale.

mattnewton 4y ago
I mean, my use of belly up is definitely hyperbole. But, that the position of say, 12,000 usd per coin expiring in December is a huge enough dip from current prices that it is likely to come true only in the event of a large crash, and during the last crash Binance froze withdrawals and there was a large backlog of “stuck” transactions on the blockchain. I don’t know how these options execute but if I have to move bitcoin on the blockchain to unwind the position I would be afraid of being able to actually unwind it at the most favorable price in a time window, making the risk actually higher than typical models. Or maybe I dont know what I am talking about and Binance options wouldn’t need to actually move coins on the chain to close out the position?

benreesman 4y ago

Also, not to pile on, but GP said 100-1000USD BTC. I’ll sell puts at that until my Saudi buds run out of money to lend me. You’re talking 12k-15k, which is a much more interesting options chain.

mattnewton 4y ago
Right, I’ve learned the hard way that if my models are that out of line with the market then my models are wrong in ways that will cost me a lot of money. Satoshi himself could reveal to me the future price of bitcoin is intrinsically around $1,000 USD as a little understood fact of how the blockchain works, and I still wouldn’t trade on that today with prices where they are. Even a instantaneous divine revelation from God to all mankind would take a long time to propagate through the markets and you would lose your money in the meantime.
- benreesman 4y ago
  I don’t know whether or not you’ve studied economics or financial mathematics, but you’ve concisely and concretely identified something called the Weak-Form Efficient Market Hypothesis. Maybe you already knew that, but if not you’re a natural.