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There's not much democracy in the EU, and that's by design. I'm only surprised they haven't got rid of the ability of countries to secede the union yet. I'm gu

There's not much democracy in the EU, and that's by design. I'm only surprised they haven't got rid of the ability of countries to secede the union yet. I'm guessing all these pushes for further integration are an attempt at de facto making it impossible to secede, even if not legally.

malermeister 4y ago
> There's not much democracy in the EU, and that's by design. [citation needed]. Please don't just throw out wild claims without any proof. As far as I'm aware, every single element of the EU is democratically legitimized in one way or another. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? > I'm only surprised they haven't got rid of the ability of countries to secede the union yet. Why would they? If you don't want to be on our boat, feel free to sink on your own. We don't need the dead weight.
timeon 4y ago
> and that's by design. And that design is there to keep sovereignty of membership countries - so it is strange that you are surprised that there is still the ability of countries to secede the union. Most powerful entities in EU are national governments of countries. Who is appointing Commissioners? Member states. Similar like national governments are appointing its ministers. Then there is veto and of course, who has last word in everything? Heads of states / prime ministers.
- rjzzleep 4y ago
  Ah yeah, just like how Von der Leyen, Macron said that they want to abolish the consensual vote, when Hungary didn't play along with sanctions being a landlocked country. Totally democratic and totally designed to keep sovereignty.
  - toyg 4y ago
    Macron can say what he wants, he has not written any treaty yet. The Hungarian government is still free to act as they see fit. This said, majority-rule can only increase in European mechanisms, because a continent cannot be paralized by the needs of a tiny minority on every possible choice. Does the US Senate (effectively the equivalent of EuroCouncil, with almost-equal representation for each US state) require unanimity on every choice? Obviously not, or it would never get anything done (and even like that, it struggles massively to approve anything these days).

malermeister 4y ago

> There's not much democracy in the EU, and that's by design. [citation needed]. Please don't just throw out wild claims without any proof. As far as I'm aware, every single element of the EU is democratically legitimized in one way or another. Do you have any evidence to the contrary? > I'm only surprised they haven't got rid of the ability of countries to secede the union yet. Why would they? If you don't want to be on our boat, feel free to sink on your own. We don't need the dead weight.

timeon 4y ago

> and that's by design. And that design is there to keep sovereignty of membership countries - so it is strange that you are surprised that there is still the ability of countries to secede the union. Most powerful entities in EU are national governments of countries. Who is appointing Commissioners? Member states. Similar like national governments are appointing its ministers. Then there is veto and of course, who has last word in everything? Heads of states / prime ministers.

rjzzleep 4y ago
Ah yeah, just like how Von der Leyen, Macron said that they want to abolish the consensual vote, when Hungary didn't play along with sanctions being a landlocked country. Totally democratic and totally designed to keep sovereignty.
- toyg 4y ago
  Macron can say what he wants, he has not written any treaty yet. The Hungarian government is still free to act as they see fit. This said, majority-rule can only increase in European mechanisms, because a continent cannot be paralized by the needs of a tiny minority on every possible choice. Does the US Senate (effectively the equivalent of EuroCouncil, with almost-equal representation for each US state) require unanimity on every choice? Obviously not, or it would never get anything done (and even like that, it struggles massively to approve anything these days).