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I think robust information software (AKA "CRUD" apps, data visualization and interaction etc.) should definitely be built with higher level paradigms, DSLs or a

by dgb23 4y ago

I think robust information software (AKA "CRUD" apps, data visualization and interaction etc.) should definitely be built with higher level paradigms, DSLs or a language that provides such capabilities out of the box for these reasons: - principle of least power - can often be talked and reasoned about more easily - lends itself to visualization - can be tested more easily and uniformly - eliminates certain classes of accidental complexity So yes it makes sense to use... - relational algebra for data manipulation where feasible, functional programming for the rest - (data driven / functional) state machines for control ...like the article is suggesting. I also kind of like the idea about I/O but I'm not 100% sure there, because I never played with such a system. Reactive programming is powerful too to manage data flow and again hides away plumbing and side-effects. In a sense this is kind of already how many are programming in modern FP languages like Clojure (via libraries). What we possibly lose with these approaches is performance, except the runtime/macros are fine tuned to make automatic optimizations, so some of that can be gained back in the long term. But I generally agree that there is tons of leverage in programming these things at a higher level.

dlojudice 4y ago
> higher level paradigms, DSLs or a language that provides such capabilities out of the box for these reasons Based on exactly this arguments that we created HerbsJS [1], a domain-first library to build microservices. While the essential complexity can't be removed [2], we should put effort to remove the accidental complexity as much as possible. BTW, great to see this kind of discussion here and congratulations to the team responsible for Cell Lang. [1] https://herbsjs.org/ https://herbsjs.org/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet
throwamon 4y ago
> this is kind of already how many are programming in modern FP languages like Clojure (via libraries). Would you have links about this programming style and some of these libraries?
- roguas 4y ago
  No links. However as clojure dev, typically you build your programs as this one big folding operation. You can stray away from this to a degree (much more than in say Haskell) but in the end most programs are just one call to reduce function with data. This is something that becomes very obvious when you become more familiar with fp. Yet it was the most surprising/eye opening thing when you are not.

by dgb23 4y ago

dlojudice 4y ago

> higher level paradigms, DSLs or a language that provides such capabilities out of the box for these reasons Based on exactly this arguments that we created HerbsJS [1], a domain-first library to build microservices. While the essential complexity can't be removed [2], we should put effort to remove the accidental complexity as much as possible. BTW, great to see this kind of discussion here and congratulations to the team responsible for Cell Lang. [1] https://herbsjs.org/ https://herbsjs.org/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet

throwamon 4y ago

> this is kind of already how many are programming in modern FP languages like Clojure (via libraries). Would you have links about this programming style and some of these libraries?

roguas 4y ago
No links. However as clojure dev, typically you build your programs as this one big folding operation. You can stray away from this to a degree (much more than in say Haskell) but in the end most programs are just one call to reduce function with data. This is something that becomes very obvious when you become more familiar with fp. Yet it was the most surprising/eye opening thing when you are not.