4 ms·

Alternatively, there is such a thing as a woke corporation, and there is such a thing as an anti gay corporation, and they might even be the same corporation at

Alternatively, there is such a thing as a woke corporation, and there is such a thing as an anti gay corporation, and they might even be the same corporation at different points in space and\or time. Wokism is a dominant religion (not demographically) in the US, therefore corporations there pray to wokism and observe its rituals. Anti gay islam is a dominant religion in the Middle East, therefore corporations there will do the same things they do to wokism elsewhere, if grudgingly. This is quite different than what the employees of a corporation might think, which will depend on the cultural milieu they were raised in. The corporation itself, however, is an emergent non-human intelligence, and it tends to abhor non-profit-related conflicts.

ziddoap 4y ago
Genuine question: what is the definition of 'woke' (in the context of how you're using it)? Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". But the vast majority of time I see someone talk about 'wokeness' or 'woke culture', they use the word in a derogatory manner. So I'm guessing the 'woke' mentioned is not "being alert to injustice" (as it is a pretty reasonable stance to be alert to injustices). In your case, you go as far as to call it a religion. Is being alert to injustice really a religion in your view? Or, how are you defining 'woke' and 'wokism'?
- FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
  - ziddoap 4y ago
    What does any of this have to do with how the word 'woke' was used? The word 'woke' has one applicable dictionary definition (and not thousands of years of teachings, etc.) which doesn't align with how I see it used. I'm not asking for a theology lesson, just how OP intended their usage of 'woke' to be interpreted by the reader. This isn't some 'gotcha' question or start of a debate. I literally am just not understanding what 'woke' is intended to convey, outside of the dictionary definition, especially when used in a derogatory or negative way. Your comment does literally 0 to answer the question, and I fail to see how it is even related.
    - FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
      (I engaged in pointless argument here. The quotes below are sufficient.)
      - ziddoap 4y ago
        >I thought you were playing dumb. Maybe you are? Maybe not? What part of 'genuine question' is confusing? Isn't there some rule here about reading comments in the best light, not the worst? >You chose a self-presented definition of wokeism that makes it sound unobjectionable. No, I chose the definition supplied by Oxford Language when searching for 'definition of woke'. >Understanding your post not to be a good-faith question but an argument in favor of wokeism Seems rather uncharitable. Can you tell me how I, in the future, can ask for a colloquial definition (which doesn't match dictionary definitions) so that it doesn't confuse people into thinking I'm somehow a proponent of said word/phrase/etc? Apparently 'genuine question' isn't interpreted as genuine.
- krapp 4y ago
  The dictionary definition is correct, but most people who use it online use it as a generic slur against leftists and progressives. As you can observe, actual good-faith academic usage of the term is all but nonexistent outside of progressive circles.
- dbrueck 4y ago
  Earlier, 'woke' described a person who is alert to injustice, but now it describes a person who wants everyone to know that they are alert to injustice.
- Banana699 4y ago
  >how are you defining 'woke' and 'wokism' Tough question, it's always hard to be honest about one's definitions. I will try to formalize wokism in a way that will make it clear why I despise it to people who see nothing obviously wrong with it apriori. - It's an ideology characterized by outsized obsession with and the veneration of a few identities, chief among which are women, queers, and varying subsets of non-white ethnic groups. - It's an ideology characterized by outsized hatred\bias\dismissal against the "opposite" of the above venerated groups, namely straights and\or whites and\or men, among others. - It's an ideology that is utterly convinced of the morality of every single one of its positions, and sees 0 utility in debating, compromising with, co-existing, or even ignoring in peace any of its myriad opponents. - It's an ideology that is uniformly in power across Western (== USA, Canada, Australia, and north-western Europe until the border defined by Russia, Poland, Hungary and the Balkans) institutions, chief among which are media, PR/HR departments of any corporation, law, secular universities, non profit organizations and think tanks, any left of center political organization, and, of course, mainstream social media. Solve this system of constraints to whatever degree of accuracy you desire, and whatever the solver spits out is a wokism. As to why someone would hate wokism, several reasons. - They belong to a group mentioned in #2, or adjacent\similar to one. - #3 makes sure that any single opposition or push back to wokism is a declaration of war against all of wokism. For instance, I'm atheist, vegetarian, non-white, left-leaning on economic matters, and very moderately progressive (== A lot of tradition is stupid, but we don't know which, and so one must be always very careful overriding it) on social matters. All of this isn't enough to offset the fact that I'm a straight man who is pro free speech. - #4 makes wokism pattern-match to patterns that describe other authoritarian ideologies. Wokism is extremely similar in rhetoric and actions to religious fundamentalists in my country for example (which is why I call them a religion, they tick all the boxes except having a prophet, a god, and a path to forgiveness), other people who witnessed communist dictatorships often compare wokism to one. Regardless of whether those comparisons are in fact valid, wokism reminds (and promises) some of its opponents of much uglier things. >Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism" Dictionary was right till about 2018-2019. The word 'Woke' dates back to the 1930s, originally meaning literal awareness and coined in AAVE, as in "Those cops appear to be looking for trouble, stay woke". By the 1960s the term refered to more abstract awareness of cultural\political matters, and by the 2000s the term reached wider English usage and had primarily positive connotations. See Wikipedia and linguist John McWhorter for more details about the history of the word. The negative connotations of the word appears to have started roughly in early to mid 2020, replacing 'SJWs' or 'Social Justice Warriors' (itself an originally positive term, originally coined by the ideology itself and later used as an insult by roughly 2013-2014). Now it's the dominant word used to refer to the ideology described above and its adherents.

ziddoap 4y ago

Genuine question: what is the definition of 'woke' (in the context of how you're using it)? Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism". But the vast majority of time I see someone talk about 'wokeness' or 'woke culture', they use the word in a derogatory manner. So I'm guessing the 'woke' mentioned is not "being alert to injustice" (as it is a pretty reasonable stance to be alert to injustices). In your case, you go as far as to call it a religion. Is being alert to injustice really a religion in your view? Or, how are you defining 'woke' and 'wokism'?

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
- ziddoap 4y ago
  What does any of this have to do with how the word 'woke' was used? The word 'woke' has one applicable dictionary definition (and not thousands of years of teachings, etc.) which doesn't align with how I see it used. I'm not asking for a theology lesson, just how OP intended their usage of 'woke' to be interpreted by the reader. This isn't some 'gotcha' question or start of a debate. I literally am just not understanding what 'woke' is intended to convey, outside of the dictionary definition, especially when used in a derogatory or negative way. Your comment does literally 0 to answer the question, and I fail to see how it is even related.
  - FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
    (I engaged in pointless argument here. The quotes below are sufficient.)
    - ziddoap 4y ago
      >I thought you were playing dumb. Maybe you are? Maybe not? What part of 'genuine question' is confusing? Isn't there some rule here about reading comments in the best light, not the worst? >You chose a self-presented definition of wokeism that makes it sound unobjectionable. No, I chose the definition supplied by Oxford Language when searching for 'definition of woke'. >Understanding your post not to be a good-faith question but an argument in favor of wokeism Seems rather uncharitable. Can you tell me how I, in the future, can ask for a colloquial definition (which doesn't match dictionary definitions) so that it doesn't confuse people into thinking I'm somehow a proponent of said word/phrase/etc? Apparently 'genuine question' isn't interpreted as genuine.
krapp 4y ago
The dictionary definition is correct, but most people who use it online use it as a generic slur against leftists and progressives. As you can observe, actual good-faith academic usage of the term is all but nonexistent outside of progressive circles.
dbrueck 4y ago
Earlier, 'woke' described a person who is alert to injustice, but now it describes a person who wants everyone to know that they are alert to injustice.
Banana699 4y ago
>how are you defining 'woke' and 'wokism' Tough question, it's always hard to be honest about one's definitions. I will try to formalize wokism in a way that will make it clear why I despise it to people who see nothing obviously wrong with it apriori. - It's an ideology characterized by outsized obsession with and the veneration of a few identities, chief among which are women, queers, and varying subsets of non-white ethnic groups. - It's an ideology characterized by outsized hatred\bias\dismissal against the "opposite" of the above venerated groups, namely straights and\or whites and\or men, among others. - It's an ideology that is utterly convinced of the morality of every single one of its positions, and sees 0 utility in debating, compromising with, co-existing, or even ignoring in peace any of its myriad opponents. - It's an ideology that is uniformly in power across Western (== USA, Canada, Australia, and north-western Europe until the border defined by Russia, Poland, Hungary and the Balkans) institutions, chief among which are media, PR/HR departments of any corporation, law, secular universities, non profit organizations and think tanks, any left of center political organization, and, of course, mainstream social media. Solve this system of constraints to whatever degree of accuracy you desire, and whatever the solver spits out is a wokism. As to why someone would hate wokism, several reasons. - They belong to a group mentioned in #2, or adjacent\similar to one. - #3 makes sure that any single opposition or push back to wokism is a declaration of war against all of wokism. For instance, I'm atheist, vegetarian, non-white, left-leaning on economic matters, and very moderately progressive (== A lot of tradition is stupid, but we don't know which, and so one must be always very careful overriding it) on social matters. All of this isn't enough to offset the fact that I'm a straight man who is pro free speech. - #4 makes wokism pattern-match to patterns that describe other authoritarian ideologies. Wokism is extremely similar in rhetoric and actions to religious fundamentalists in my country for example (which is why I call them a religion, they tick all the boxes except having a prophet, a god, and a path to forgiveness), other people who witnessed communist dictatorships often compare wokism to one. Regardless of whether those comparisons are in fact valid, wokism reminds (and promises) some of its opponents of much uglier things. >Dictionary tells me it is "alert to injustice in society, especially racism" Dictionary was right till about 2018-2019. The word 'Woke' dates back to the 1930s, originally meaning literal awareness and coined in AAVE, as in "Those cops appear to be looking for trouble, stay woke". By the 1960s the term refered to more abstract awareness of cultural\political matters, and by the 2000s the term reached wider English usage and had primarily positive connotations. See Wikipedia and linguist John McWhorter for more details about the history of the word. The negative connotations of the word appears to have started roughly in early to mid 2020, replacing 'SJWs' or 'Social Justice Warriors' (itself an originally positive term, originally coined by the ideology itself and later used as an insult by roughly 2013-2014). Now it's the dominant word used to refer to the ideology described above and its adherents.