4 ms·

Smartphones are killing a lot of stuff. IMO they've been mostly regressive. EDIT: RE: Smartphones enable new things I don't think there's anything new that s

by usrn 4y ago

Smartphones are killing a lot of stuff. IMO they've been mostly regressive. EDIT: RE: Smartphones enable new things I don't think there's anything new that smartphones have made possible actually. They've only made what was already possible popular. I had a very portable laptop with Wireless PCMCIA cards in 2010 (it was a hand me down from my dad and was made around 1999 so it certainly was available in 2006.) In fact I ran self hosting dev environments (plural) on it along with both Linux and Windows. Both OSes had overlapping window management and real multi tasking. It also had IRDA built in so you could (in theroy) send apps between them (I always just used the internet but smartphones can't even do that without going through an intermediary.) Tons of stuff smartphones can't do at all. RE: Smartphones are a UI improvement Compared to what cameras had? Maybe (I'm not entirely convinced of that even. Touch UIs are awful even without notifications and other modal UI elements popping and sliding underneath eachother while you're trying to do something unrelated.) Smartphone UIs are a massive regression from what the PDAs and PCs had before them though. RE: Smartphones don't have to be distracting if you don't install distracting apps No. The whole UI is built around giving all your attention to a single thing and scrolling through it. The web browsers are even design to be anti-productivity.

ghaff 4y ago
Would you actually prefer to buy all the devices in this 1991 Radio Shack ad instead? https://consumerist.com/2014/01/17/the-smartphone-has-effectively-replaced-all-the-technology-offered-in-this-1991-radio-shack-ad/ https://consumerist.com/2014/01/17/the-smartphone-has-effect...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- usrn 4y ago
  Yes I've actually switched to carrying around a seperate camera, map, radio, notebook, and flip phone because I'm that frustrated with smartphone software. Interestingly enough I can look at the map and camera at the same time, something smartphone hardware is capable of but made impossible by the software.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I'll often have a separate paper map, camera, and paper for things like shopping lists. (Also carry a small wallet.) But still appreciate that I don't always need all the backups and other stuff.
    - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
      The problem for me is that the smartphone is a perfectly designed distraction machine. And distraction management just isn't a priority when designing smartphone software, especially for Apple. Making everything so easy to access on a phone also makes it that much easier to use the device compulsively, something I never struggle with on a flip phone.
      - Retric 4y ago
        You don’t need to install distracting apps at which point they both get the same calls and SMS(text) messages. I love having my phone, but I only look at the screen for 10 or so minutes a day on average. Still those 10 minuets are really useful. Monday I showed up and saw a “we’ve moved” sign with a new address but no directions. I didn’t need to write it down then reinter into a cars GPS, that’s the advantage of an all in one device you take everywhere.
        thr0wawayf00 4y ago
        That's great that you don't have an issue checking your phone. I have ADHD and I wish I knew how to just look at a fully loaded smartphone for only 10 minutes per day. SMS isn't the main distraction: it's the internet connectivity. Turning off notifications is easy, it's compulsively checking whatever my dog brain is curious about at a given moment that is really hard to create effective barriers around.
- gspencley 4y ago
  YES To the extent that I need the functionality of any of those (and I don't have a use for all of them) then I would rather buy something that does one thing and one thing well rather than carrying something around with me that - can interrupt / distract me at any time - that is a single point of failure - that is expensive and a target for getting stolen - that spies on me - that enables the manufacturer to push updates to it remotely without my consent - and has planned obsolescence built in - seems to have enabled this mass migration to "software as a service" where I don't own my data or my software any more I've worked in tech for nearly 25 years. I used to be a very "high-tech" person, compared to my peers in the 90s and early 00s. These days my smart phone consists of a Pixel 6 with GrapheneOS installed, very few apps (the ones that are installed are open source) and I actually hardly touch the damned thing. I often forget it at home. And I like it that way. For those who make judicious use of their smart phone, great. Live and love your life. To each their own. What I resent about smart phones is that they left me and those like me behind. The above bullet points are all deal breakers for me. I don't like the things. I don't have a need for them. I want a smart phone free life and that seems to get harder and harder as everything, including some government services, are starting to require apps. I don't like to be a black and white thinker who thinks something is all good or all bad ... sure there are a couple of conveniences that I can point to with smart phones. But the bad so far outweighs the good to me that I'm practically a luddite now even though I've dedicated my life to developing technology.
  - nonrandomstring 4y ago
    We've one or two things in common. I see no contradiction between being intellectually at the leading edge of technology, and not owning a smartphone. You can read about how that came about in Digital Vegan [1]. For many of the same reasons I now feel alienated from "smartphone culture", occasionally use a Nokia flip-phone and buy individual gadgets that I love and repair. They've done a great deal of good, of course, but at least an equal amount of harm, psychologically and socially. [1] https://digitalvegan.net https://digitalvegan.net
paulcole 4y ago
> IMO they've been mostly regressive. This is quite the take. Compare what’s possible today because of smartphones that didn’t exist in 2006. Huge populations of the world have internet access and technology that would’ve been unthinkable 25 years ago. Half of HN is getting rich because of smartphones. Yes, parts of the culture change that’s resulted from smartphones kinda sucks. But “mostly regressive” feels like a stretch.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
As someone that used to work for a camera company that got absolutely clobbered by smartphones, I can report that they are, indeed, a huge disruptor. But I also don't think they are all bad. I spent most of my career in hardware-oriented companies, and was constantly discouraged by hardware people disparaging, and, sometimes, outright sabotaging, efforts to improve software and software-driven UX. A lot of hardware people did it to themselves. Even though I was often the recipient of a great deal of fairly abusive behavior, on the part of hardware folks, I have absolutely no schadenfreude, at all. It's really fairly heartbreaking. These folks loved their jobs, they loved the products they made, and they sincerely wanted to do the best. Even though they were wrong, they really thought they were doing the right thing. One thing that Apple has done right, is meld hardware and software/firmware into a cohesive unit. Each of their products reflects a really good result of tight-knit collaboration between hard and soft. There's lots of physics and science involved. I know someone that reverse-engineers Apple products (electron microscope-level reverse engineering), and they report that Apple really does badass work. This comes from someone that would rather they didn't. I feel that smartphones are almost ideal "control panels," or dashboards, for devices. Some manufacturers are grokking that fairly well; others, not so much.
throw8383833jj 4y ago
As a consumer, I'm not very impressed with smartphones. It's mostly just entertainment. There's very little utility other than looking stuff up on the internet. It's basically just a far less UI capable but more portable computer. if you doubt this to any degree, just try getting any work done: anything. spreadsheets? programming? writing a length email? debugging? smartphones are mainly just entertainment devices.

by usrn 4y ago

ghaff 4y ago

Would you actually prefer to buy all the devices in this 1991 Radio Shack ad instead? https://consumerist.com/2014/01/17/the-smartphone-has-effectively-replaced-all-the-technology-offered-in-this-1991-radio-shack-ad/ https://consumerist.com/2014/01/17/the-smartphone-has-effect...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
usrn 4y ago
Yes I've actually switched to carrying around a seperate camera, map, radio, notebook, and flip phone because I'm that frustrated with smartphone software. Interestingly enough I can look at the map and camera at the same time, something smartphone hardware is capable of but made impossible by the software.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I'll often have a separate paper map, camera, and paper for things like shopping lists. (Also carry a small wallet.) But still appreciate that I don't always need all the backups and other stuff.
  - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
    The problem for me is that the smartphone is a perfectly designed distraction machine. And distraction management just isn't a priority when designing smartphone software, especially for Apple. Making everything so easy to access on a phone also makes it that much easier to use the device compulsively, something I never struggle with on a flip phone.
    - Retric 4y ago
      You don’t need to install distracting apps at which point they both get the same calls and SMS(text) messages. I love having my phone, but I only look at the screen for 10 or so minutes a day on average. Still those 10 minuets are really useful. Monday I showed up and saw a “we’ve moved” sign with a new address but no directions. I didn’t need to write it down then reinter into a cars GPS, that’s the advantage of an all in one device you take everywhere.
      - thr0wawayf00 4y ago
        That's great that you don't have an issue checking your phone. I have ADHD and I wish I knew how to just look at a fully loaded smartphone for only 10 minutes per day. SMS isn't the main distraction: it's the internet connectivity. Turning off notifications is easy, it's compulsively checking whatever my dog brain is curious about at a given moment that is really hard to create effective barriers around.
gspencley 4y ago
YES To the extent that I need the functionality of any of those (and I don't have a use for all of them) then I would rather buy something that does one thing and one thing well rather than carrying something around with me that - can interrupt / distract me at any time - that is a single point of failure - that is expensive and a target for getting stolen - that spies on me - that enables the manufacturer to push updates to it remotely without my consent - and has planned obsolescence built in - seems to have enabled this mass migration to "software as a service" where I don't own my data or my software any more I've worked in tech for nearly 25 years. I used to be a very "high-tech" person, compared to my peers in the 90s and early 00s. These days my smart phone consists of a Pixel 6 with GrapheneOS installed, very few apps (the ones that are installed are open source) and I actually hardly touch the damned thing. I often forget it at home. And I like it that way. For those who make judicious use of their smart phone, great. Live and love your life. To each their own. What I resent about smart phones is that they left me and those like me behind. The above bullet points are all deal breakers for me. I don't like the things. I don't have a need for them. I want a smart phone free life and that seems to get harder and harder as everything, including some government services, are starting to require apps. I don't like to be a black and white thinker who thinks something is all good or all bad ... sure there are a couple of conveniences that I can point to with smart phones. But the bad so far outweighs the good to me that I'm practically a luddite now even though I've dedicated my life to developing technology.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  We've one or two things in common. I see no contradiction between being intellectually at the leading edge of technology, and not owning a smartphone. You can read about how that came about in Digital Vegan [1]. For many of the same reasons I now feel alienated from "smartphone culture", occasionally use a Nokia flip-phone and buy individual gadgets that I love and repair. They've done a great deal of good, of course, but at least an equal amount of harm, psychologically and socially. [1] https://digitalvegan.net https://digitalvegan.net

paulcole 4y ago

> IMO they've been mostly regressive. This is quite the take. Compare what’s possible today because of smartphones that didn’t exist in 2006. Huge populations of the world have internet access and technology that would’ve been unthinkable 25 years ago. Half of HN is getting rich because of smartphones. Yes, parts of the culture change that’s resulted from smartphones kinda sucks. But “mostly regressive” feels like a stretch.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

As someone that used to work for a camera company that got absolutely clobbered by smartphones, I can report that they are, indeed, a huge disruptor. But I also don't think they are all bad. I spent most of my career in hardware-oriented companies, and was constantly discouraged by hardware people disparaging, and, sometimes, outright sabotaging, efforts to improve software and software-driven UX. A lot of hardware people did it to themselves. Even though I was often the recipient of a great deal of fairly abusive behavior, on the part of hardware folks, I have absolutely no schadenfreude, at all. It's really fairly heartbreaking. These folks loved their jobs, they loved the products they made, and they sincerely wanted to do the best. Even though they were wrong, they really thought they were doing the right thing. One thing that Apple has done right, is meld hardware and software/firmware into a cohesive unit. Each of their products reflects a really good result of tight-knit collaboration between hard and soft. There's lots of physics and science involved. I know someone that reverse-engineers Apple products (electron microscope-level reverse engineering), and they report that Apple really does badass work. This comes from someone that would rather they didn't. I feel that smartphones are almost ideal "control panels," or dashboards, for devices. Some manufacturers are grokking that fairly well; others, not so much.

throw8383833jj 4y ago

As a consumer, I'm not very impressed with smartphones. It's mostly just entertainment. There's very little utility other than looking stuff up on the internet. It's basically just a far less UI capable but more portable computer. if you doubt this to any degree, just try getting any work done: anything. spreadsheets? programming? writing a length email? debugging? smartphones are mainly just entertainment devices.