4 ms·

> Whether it's nefarious is debatable Ok, I'll bite: try to debate how it isn't nefarious, because I sincerely cannot think of an argument.

FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
I'll bite too. If you don't have superbowl ads money, or already have a huge following, data and A/B testing is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website Those are tools designed to market products, not handle super sensitive data, it's kind of like using hotjar to record sessions on your (super confidential) website to find pain points and bugs, only to whine that hotjar stores data about your users actions, that's the entire reason why you're a customer. I really don't get the fuss. I don't even get the point of advertising pharmacies, you don't need medicines to be advertised to you, it's even crazier that a part of the price of your meds would be "facebook ads budget" And tbh I have more trust in the reliability of the infrastructure behind FB ads than in the spaghetti PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies, or in the windows XP/vista computers that their employees use. If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  > If you don't have superbowl ads money, or already have a huge following, data and A/B testing is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website Then how did we manage to sell medicine or call doctors before this wonderful era of Facebook integration? Would without this Swedes simply go without healthcare?
  - FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
    I also said "I don't even get the point of advertising pharmacies, you don't need medicines to be advertised to you, it's even crazier that a part of the price of your meds would be "facebook ads budget"" They're just using the wrong tool for the wrong job for the wrong reasons, but it's not facebook fault in that case
- UweSchmidt 4y ago
  Those tools should probably be designed to handle super sensitive data, if they are handling super sensitive data. And, user behaviour on a website can very well be confidential, for example they could easily track the cognitive decline of users over time as mouse movement gets more erratic and reactions slow down - super sensitive information if you ask me. The reason a person is a customer is because they might buy a thing, not to be analyzed.
- KingOfCoders 4y ago
  "PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies" Real or pulled from thin air? "If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook." My getpawnd list includes: Adobe (billion $ company), Dropbox (billion $ company) and Linkedin (billion^2 $ company) - twice!.
- ChoGGi 4y ago
  > If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook The bigger the company, the bigger the payoff.
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  > Those are tools designed to market products, not handle super sensitive data, it's kind of like using hotjar to record sessions on your (super confidential) website to find pain points and bugs, only to whine that hotjar stores data about your users actions, that's the entire reason why you're a customer. In which case it is nefarious to advertise that they do handle super sensitive data correctly. Which Facebook does. > If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook. This is moving the goalposts.
- aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
  Well, they have been, as well as bunch of others you blindly trust.
- pdimitar 4y ago
  Who is talking about FB being hacked? It's about them reusing all this info for many other purposes. That is nefarious. Plus you'll find that many will vehemently disagree with you kind of accepting as a given that data should be handed to FB carte blanche. It's a dishonest to start with such an extremely debatable starting point. I say why don't we give them jack (nil) and start the discussion then.
- _nalply 4y ago
  > is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website This argument is like in sports: Woe me I can't win a price everybody is doping!
- epicide 4y ago
  > And tbh I have more trust in the reliability of the infrastructure behind FB ads than in the spaghetti PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies, or in the windows XP/vista computers that their employees use. You are comparing security in response to an issue about privacy. Facebook's security around data that they shouldn't have in the first place is irrelevant. Additionally, even a contractor today still could not create feature parity with Facebook as they do not have the network effect of Facebook. That's assuming the company/contractor would even try to build all of it themselves.
- lostlogin 4y ago
  Another angle to this is the legality of direct to consumer drug advertising. I had though this was only legal in the US and New Zealand. The wiki doesn’t say it’s allowed in Sweden, so I’m not sure how they are getting away with it. Or is the advertising not for prescription drugs? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertisi...
  - mekkkkkk 4y ago
    Advertising for prescription drugs is not allowed in Sweden. Pharmacy ads are for non-prescription items like sunscreen, deodorant, whatever. I'd guess that the largest margins are on those items anyway, considering the subsidizing/reimbursement system for prescriptions.
    - cinntaile 4y ago
      To expand upon this Aspirin, Advil, ... or paracetamol based alternatives are non-prescription drugs (under a certain mg dose), while antibiotics are prescription drugs.
mekkkkkk 4y ago
You can argue that they trust developers to be responsible. Having a user friendly and powerful SDK with tons of possible data points isn't inherently a bad thing. All of the features could be used in a responsible fashion, and FB thinks you're smart enough to do so. I'm not entirely convinced of this personally, but it seems like a somewhat sound argument. I think that they know that it will inevitably be misused, and that they have enough incentive for allowing the misuse to continue.
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  BTW, my apologies, I think my somewhat flippant replies attracted downvotes to your comments that you didn't deserve. I should have been more clear that I'm strongly disagreeing with the argument, while appreciating your attempt to come up with one in good faith.
  - mekkkkkk 4y ago
    It is what it is. One does not simply steel man arguments online.
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  > You can argue that they trust developers to be responsible. Anyone who argues this should not be let anywhere near sensitive data.

FrenchDevRemote 4y ago

I'll bite too. If you don't have superbowl ads money, or already have a huge following, data and A/B testing is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website Those are tools designed to market products, not handle super sensitive data, it's kind of like using hotjar to record sessions on your (super confidential) website to find pain points and bugs, only to whine that hotjar stores data about your users actions, that's the entire reason why you're a customer. I really don't get the fuss. I don't even get the point of advertising pharmacies, you don't need medicines to be advertised to you, it's even crazier that a part of the price of your meds would be "facebook ads budget" And tbh I have more trust in the reliability of the infrastructure behind FB ads than in the spaghetti PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies, or in the windows XP/vista computers that their employees use. If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook.

car_analogy 4y ago
> If you don't have superbowl ads money, or already have a huge following, data and A/B testing is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website Then how did we manage to sell medicine or call doctors before this wonderful era of Facebook integration? Would without this Swedes simply go without healthcare?
- FrenchDevRemote 4y ago
  I also said "I don't even get the point of advertising pharmacies, you don't need medicines to be advertised to you, it's even crazier that a part of the price of your meds would be "facebook ads budget"" They're just using the wrong tool for the wrong job for the wrong reasons, but it's not facebook fault in that case
UweSchmidt 4y ago
Those tools should probably be designed to handle super sensitive data, if they are handling super sensitive data. And, user behaviour on a website can very well be confidential, for example they could easily track the cognitive decline of users over time as mouse movement gets more erratic and reactions slow down - super sensitive information if you ask me. The reason a person is a customer is because they might buy a thing, not to be analyzed.
KingOfCoders 4y ago
"PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies" Real or pulled from thin air? "If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook." My getpawnd list includes: Adobe (billion $ company), Dropbox (billion $ company) and Linkedin (billion^2 $ company) - twice!.
ChoGGi 4y ago
> If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook The bigger the company, the bigger the payoff.
vanderZwan 4y ago
> Those are tools designed to market products, not handle super sensitive data, it's kind of like using hotjar to record sessions on your (super confidential) website to find pain points and bugs, only to whine that hotjar stores data about your users actions, that's the entire reason why you're a customer. In which case it is nefarious to advertise that they do handle super sensitive data correctly. Which Facebook does. > If I had to bet on who's getting hacked, I wouldn't bet on Facebook. This is moving the goalposts.
aaaaaaaaata 4y ago
Well, they have been, as well as bunch of others you blindly trust.
pdimitar 4y ago
Who is talking about FB being hacked? It's about them reusing all this info for many other purposes. That is nefarious. Plus you'll find that many will vehemently disagree with you kind of accepting as a given that data should be handed to FB carte blanche. It's a dishonest to start with such an extremely debatable starting point. I say why don't we give them jack (nil) and start the discussion then.
_nalply 4y ago
> is probably the only way to be profitable while doing e-commerce on your own website This argument is like in sports: Woe me I can't win a price everybody is doping!
epicide 4y ago
> And tbh I have more trust in the reliability of the infrastructure behind FB ads than in the spaghetti PHP code written in 2005 by a contractor for those pharmacies, or in the windows XP/vista computers that their employees use. You are comparing security in response to an issue about privacy. Facebook's security around data that they shouldn't have in the first place is irrelevant. Additionally, even a contractor today still could not create feature parity with Facebook as they do not have the network effect of Facebook. That's assuming the company/contractor would even try to build all of it themselves.
lostlogin 4y ago
Another angle to this is the legality of direct to consumer drug advertising. I had though this was only legal in the US and New Zealand. The wiki doesn’t say it’s allowed in Sweden, so I’m not sure how they are getting away with it. Or is the advertising not for prescription drugs? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertising https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-to-consumer_advertisi...
- mekkkkkk 4y ago
  Advertising for prescription drugs is not allowed in Sweden. Pharmacy ads are for non-prescription items like sunscreen, deodorant, whatever. I'd guess that the largest margins are on those items anyway, considering the subsidizing/reimbursement system for prescriptions.
  - cinntaile 4y ago
    To expand upon this Aspirin, Advil, ... or paracetamol based alternatives are non-prescription drugs (under a certain mg dose), while antibiotics are prescription drugs.

mekkkkkk 4y ago

You can argue that they trust developers to be responsible. Having a user friendly and powerful SDK with tons of possible data points isn't inherently a bad thing. All of the features could be used in a responsible fashion, and FB thinks you're smart enough to do so. I'm not entirely convinced of this personally, but it seems like a somewhat sound argument. I think that they know that it will inevitably be misused, and that they have enough incentive for allowing the misuse to continue.

vanderZwan 4y ago
BTW, my apologies, I think my somewhat flippant replies attracted downvotes to your comments that you didn't deserve. I should have been more clear that I'm strongly disagreeing with the argument, while appreciating your attempt to come up with one in good faith.
- mekkkkkk 4y ago
  It is what it is. One does not simply steel man arguments online.
vanderZwan 4y ago
> You can argue that they trust developers to be responsible. Anyone who argues this should not be let anywhere near sensitive data.