5 ms·

The first time I encountered Mathematica was 30 years ago, and I genuinely thought that within a decade this would be a tool that everyone would learn in colleg

by bborud 4y ago

The first time I encountered Mathematica was 30 years ago, and I genuinely thought that within a decade this would be a tool that everyone would learn in college. A few years later, when working at the university I was a bit puzzled to find that while you could find things like Matlab on the various computer labs around campus (usually running some flavor of Unix), Mathematica was nowhere to be seen. Not even on the Windows labs. The guy who was in charge of negotiating software licenses for the university said that it was a chicken and egg problem. Mathematica wasn't very available because it was expensive, Wolfram wasn't easy to negotiate with. With people not learning Mathematica there never developed a demand for it - and because you couldn't expect to get your hands on a license it wasn't worth the investment both in time and money to learn mathematica, or worse yet, to make yourself dependent on it for getting work done. Mathematica has always been a lovely product. But it has also always been impractical due to its pricing and restrictions. Whether you are in academia, a working professional or just a hobbyist. Which has made it a very niche piece of software. For 30+ years. There is no reason to believe this will change. And that's fine. It is their software and they can do whatever they want with it. But it also means it is largely irrelevant software for most people, including the scientific community. That isn't a disparaging remark, it is an accurate representation of reality.

7thaccount 4y ago
Mathematica is like $3k for a commercial license with the kitchen sink. Matlab can cost that much for like the database toolbox addon or the ML toolbox add-on. Mathematica is cheap in comparison.
kgwgk 4y ago
> Mathematica has always been a lovely product. But it has also always been impractical due to its pricing and restrictions. Whether you are in academia, a working professional or just a hobbyist. [...] There is no reason to believe this will change. The hobbyist license is less than $200 per year. What kind of pricing would make it practical for you? [Edit: The student license (non-expiring) was $139 twenty years ago, $176 today. That may be "expensive" but many textbooks cost more than that.]
- bastawhiz 4y ago
  That's kind of the problem: $188/y is almost twice as much as it costs to distribute an iOS app. It's two times the cost of a hobby dyno from Heroku for a year. What can you do with a hobby license from Wolfram? Use the software. You can't really distribute it, put it in production, or anything else besides serve your own compute needs. They forbid you from using the Home versions for any non-personal use: you can't bootstrap your startup with it. You're not allowed to get reimbursed for it by your employer. You're not allowed to use it for academic purposes. The service plan lets you use your license on a second computer, but dual boot counts as a second computer. You can't upgrade your license, you can only buy a new one. It's almost as though they don't want you to use their software. Why would anyone who doesn't already have experience with Mathematica pay for this license?
  - kgwgk 4y ago
    Who does pay for this license? Someone who wants to use Mathematica, I guess. You can get a 15-day trial, by the way. Why would anyone pay $100+ for a couple of games? Or for Photoshop? Or for a pair ski goggles? Or for a bottle of wine? Or for a ticket to a show? Or for a radial saw?
    - bastawhiz 4y ago
      The things you listed either are what that type of thing costs, or have free alternatives that you can develop interest and skill with. Adobe doesn't tell you what you can do with the pictures you make or edit. The difference with Mathematica is that if you don't know you like and need it already, there are numerous free and less expensive tools that do a great job, and they (usually) don't have restrictions on what you can do with them. I can make a Python notebook and start a business with it. I can use my hobby Julia code for academic research.
      - kgwgk 4y ago
        Depending on what you are trying to do saying that Python or Julia are great alternatives to Mathematica is like saying that Java is a great alternative to Python and Julia. Some people find enough value in Mathematica, Matlab, Tableau, JMP or commercial IDEs, compilers, libraries, etc. to prefer them to the free unrestricted alternatives available. Some people like iPhones and Macs, some people say that there are numerous less expensive devices that do a great job and don't have restrictions on what you can do with them.

by bborud 4y ago

7thaccount 4y ago

Mathematica is like $3k for a commercial license with the kitchen sink. Matlab can cost that much for like the database toolbox addon or the ML toolbox add-on. Mathematica is cheap in comparison.

kgwgk 4y ago

> Mathematica has always been a lovely product. But it has also always been impractical due to its pricing and restrictions. Whether you are in academia, a working professional or just a hobbyist. [...] There is no reason to believe this will change. The hobbyist license is less than $200 per year. What kind of pricing would make it practical for you? [Edit: The student license (non-expiring) was $139 twenty years ago, $176 today. That may be "expensive" but many textbooks cost more than that.]

bastawhiz 4y ago
That's kind of the problem: $188/y is almost twice as much as it costs to distribute an iOS app. It's two times the cost of a hobby dyno from Heroku for a year. What can you do with a hobby license from Wolfram? Use the software. You can't really distribute it, put it in production, or anything else besides serve your own compute needs. They forbid you from using the Home versions for any non-personal use: you can't bootstrap your startup with it. You're not allowed to get reimbursed for it by your employer. You're not allowed to use it for academic purposes. The service plan lets you use your license on a second computer, but dual boot counts as a second computer. You can't upgrade your license, you can only buy a new one. It's almost as though they don't want you to use their software. Why would anyone who doesn't already have experience with Mathematica pay for this license?
- kgwgk 4y ago
  Who does pay for this license? Someone who wants to use Mathematica, I guess. You can get a 15-day trial, by the way. Why would anyone pay $100+ for a couple of games? Or for Photoshop? Or for a pair ski goggles? Or for a bottle of wine? Or for a ticket to a show? Or for a radial saw?
  - bastawhiz 4y ago
    The things you listed either are what that type of thing costs, or have free alternatives that you can develop interest and skill with. Adobe doesn't tell you what you can do with the pictures you make or edit. The difference with Mathematica is that if you don't know you like and need it already, there are numerous free and less expensive tools that do a great job, and they (usually) don't have restrictions on what you can do with them. I can make a Python notebook and start a business with it. I can use my hobby Julia code for academic research.
    - kgwgk 4y ago
      Depending on what you are trying to do saying that Python or Julia are great alternatives to Mathematica is like saying that Java is a great alternative to Python and Julia. Some people find enough value in Mathematica, Matlab, Tableau, JMP or commercial IDEs, compilers, libraries, etc. to prefer them to the free unrestricted alternatives available. Some people like iPhones and Macs, some people say that there are numerous less expensive devices that do a great job and don't have restrictions on what you can do with them.