5 ms·

This might be a shock to you, but people here would rather have their democratic government in charge of identity than some unelected, for-profit foreign compan

This might be a shock to you, but people here would rather have their democratic government in charge of identity than some unelected, for-profit foreign company in a country that specifically does not have any privacy protections for non-citizens.

woodpanel 4y ago
This might be a shock to you, but people in Europe already have their democratic government - you may google "national elections" ;-) And again, FIDO is an open standard, that by definition isn't run or dependend on the servers of "for profit private companies". But gee, I must be total noob then. Open-Source can be bad, as can be accountability. For the greater good I guess.
- yaantc 4y ago
  FIDO allows to authenticate to an identity, which ideally is securely stored in a token and cannot be cloned or stolen. This identity is only an large, arbitrary number and that's all. This is not enough here. The example provided (bank account, university registration) make it clear that we're talking about authenticating against a person real, legal entity here. It's not needed in all cases, and when it's not FIDO is fine, but when it's needed in the end the root of trust in Europe is one's national state anyway.
- malermeister 4y ago
  > This might be a shock to you, but people in Europe already have their democratic government - you may google "national elections" ;-) People in Europe don't. People in the various countries do. This is just a level above, just like you don't say "oh why do we need the german government, can't the mayors do everything?". Different levels of organization need different democratic governments. Tribalism is not the solution.
  - argentier 4y ago
    What is democratic about the European Commission? Having an executive made up of people selected by other politicians for political reasons is all very well as long as they understand that they do not have much legitimacy. JC Junker, for all that he was a bit of an old sot, understood this very well. Von der Leyen, either because of her immensely privileged background, or because of her inability to communicate in any diplomatic way, has revealed the undemocratic abomination at the heart of the European Project. Her press conference with Stoltenberg (and Belgian nonentity Michel) at the outset of the Ukraine war deprived the EU of any room for manoeuvre in relations with Russia. She unilaterally committed hundreds of millions of people to a diplomatically absolutist position. Furthermore, she actively spun against attempts by Macron and Scholz to moderate that position. The EU cannot continue like this: already I'm quite dubious as to whether it will survive the winter, with double digit inflation and mass industrial layoffs in prospect. If Putin wants to play divide et impera with Russian fossil fuel supplies, she has certainly created the ideal conditions for him to do so. She is corrupt (see Pfizer SMS) and unaccountable.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      The commission is appointed by democratically elected heads of government, the same way the US president is appointed by democratically elected electors or the Prime Minister of the UK is appointed by democratically elected MPs. Are all of those undemocratic, too? > Her press conference with Stoltenberg (and Belgian nonentity Michel) at the outset of the Ukraine war deprived the EU of any room for manoeuvre in relations with Russia. Russia's war of aggression on our neighbor deprived us of any room for manouvre. We've seen what appeasement brings in the 30s, no need to play that game again.
      - denton-scratch 4y ago
        >Prime Minister of the UK is appointed by democratically elected MPs That's not quite correct; the PM is appointed by the Queen. In the event of a revolt by the parliamentary party of government against their leader, then the party gets to appoint a new leader, who then becomes PM. But that choice is reserved to the MPs of the majority party - hardly democratic. But in the general case, there's a General Election, and the leader of the winning party becomes PM.
Asooka 4y ago
I would rather not have online identity at all.
- fvdessen 4y ago
  Then don't use the system ?
  - swader999 4y ago
    It's telling that both you and I opted to choose a username that is somewhat anonymous on this system. We both saw this as preferable.
    - malermeister 4y ago
      This system isn't designed for writing comments on Hacker News. It's designed for things like filing your taxes or applying for a passport.
      - swader999 4y ago
        Won't be hard to use it for everything, especially purchases. That's the main issue.
        malermeister 4y ago
        It would be hard from an operational and customer satisfaction perspective. Does the grocery store ask you for your passport? If not, why should the online store ask you for your online passport?
        swader999 4y ago
        Some did actually in the height of the vax pass craze of 2021-22. The online store would get use it by way of the linked digital wallet.

woodpanel 4y ago

This might be a shock to you, but people in Europe already have their democratic government - you may google "national elections" ;-) And again, FIDO is an open standard, that by definition isn't run or dependend on the servers of "for profit private companies". But gee, I must be total noob then. Open-Source can be bad, as can be accountability. For the greater good I guess.

yaantc 4y ago
FIDO allows to authenticate to an identity, which ideally is securely stored in a token and cannot be cloned or stolen. This identity is only an large, arbitrary number and that's all. This is not enough here. The example provided (bank account, university registration) make it clear that we're talking about authenticating against a person real, legal entity here. It's not needed in all cases, and when it's not FIDO is fine, but when it's needed in the end the root of trust in Europe is one's national state anyway.
malermeister 4y ago
> This might be a shock to you, but people in Europe already have their democratic government - you may google "national elections" ;-) People in Europe don't. People in the various countries do. This is just a level above, just like you don't say "oh why do we need the german government, can't the mayors do everything?". Different levels of organization need different democratic governments. Tribalism is not the solution.
- argentier 4y ago
  What is democratic about the European Commission? Having an executive made up of people selected by other politicians for political reasons is all very well as long as they understand that they do not have much legitimacy. JC Junker, for all that he was a bit of an old sot, understood this very well. Von der Leyen, either because of her immensely privileged background, or because of her inability to communicate in any diplomatic way, has revealed the undemocratic abomination at the heart of the European Project. Her press conference with Stoltenberg (and Belgian nonentity Michel) at the outset of the Ukraine war deprived the EU of any room for manoeuvre in relations with Russia. She unilaterally committed hundreds of millions of people to a diplomatically absolutist position. Furthermore, she actively spun against attempts by Macron and Scholz to moderate that position. The EU cannot continue like this: already I'm quite dubious as to whether it will survive the winter, with double digit inflation and mass industrial layoffs in prospect. If Putin wants to play divide et impera with Russian fossil fuel supplies, she has certainly created the ideal conditions for him to do so. She is corrupt (see Pfizer SMS) and unaccountable.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    The commission is appointed by democratically elected heads of government, the same way the US president is appointed by democratically elected electors or the Prime Minister of the UK is appointed by democratically elected MPs. Are all of those undemocratic, too? > Her press conference with Stoltenberg (and Belgian nonentity Michel) at the outset of the Ukraine war deprived the EU of any room for manoeuvre in relations with Russia. Russia's war of aggression on our neighbor deprived us of any room for manouvre. We've seen what appeasement brings in the 30s, no need to play that game again.
    - denton-scratch 4y ago
      >Prime Minister of the UK is appointed by democratically elected MPs That's not quite correct; the PM is appointed by the Queen. In the event of a revolt by the parliamentary party of government against their leader, then the party gets to appoint a new leader, who then becomes PM. But that choice is reserved to the MPs of the majority party - hardly democratic. But in the general case, there's a General Election, and the leader of the winning party becomes PM.

Asooka 4y ago

I would rather not have online identity at all.

fvdessen 4y ago
Then don't use the system ?
- swader999 4y ago
  It's telling that both you and I opted to choose a username that is somewhat anonymous on this system. We both saw this as preferable.
  - malermeister 4y ago
    This system isn't designed for writing comments on Hacker News. It's designed for things like filing your taxes or applying for a passport.
    - swader999 4y ago
      Won't be hard to use it for everything, especially purchases. That's the main issue.
      - malermeister 4y ago
        It would be hard from an operational and customer satisfaction perspective. Does the grocery store ask you for your passport? If not, why should the online store ask you for your online passport?
        swader999 4y ago
        Some did actually in the height of the vax pass craze of 2021-22. The online store would get use it by way of the linked digital wallet.