5 ms·

Conversely the EU needs to ban the FAANG companies

unclebucknasty 4y ago
I'm not naive with regard to even friendly nations jockeying for control of the information space. But there is something uniquely irresponsible about letting foreign adversaries run algorithms on your populace.
robonerd 4y ago
Absolutely. Any country that doesn't ban foreign social media is behaving foolishly. This is true whether it's American social media in Europe, Chinese social media in America, or American social media in China (actually, they're ahead of the curve in this regard.)
xdennis 4y ago
The EU is partially reining in the abuses of those companies (and more should be done), but this shouldn't be equated to TikTok and what China is doing. FAANGs aren't state-controlled and Europeans do have access to the American market.
- AngryData 4y ago
  Personally I think whether something is state controlled or not matters less and less the larger corporations get. At the end of the day it still comes down to a large power imbalance between these entities and average consumers and citizens.
  - giantrobot 4y ago
    > Personally I think whether something is state controlled or not matters less and less the larger corporations get. Except in China where the CCP (the only party that can control the government) has seats on the governance boards of every large company or outright owns others. Companies only exist there with the approval of the CCP (the government). There's no court in China that can overrule the CCP's leadership so effectively the CCP is the final arbiter of what is legal or not. The US government doesn't sit on the board of Apple or Google. If Apple sued the government over something they could actually win their case and the government would be bound by the court's decision and both parties could appeal that decision. I'm not saying the system in the US or EU is perfect but it is a very far cry from the system in China. Large companies are literally state controlled no matter how big they are.
    - AngryData 4y ago
      And as an average citizen, how does that change anything to me? Whether some government stooge or some corporate stooge tells me to go fuck myself, it makes not one bit of difference in the end. Both are far too powerful for me to fight and take on. Especially when government policy is mostly decided by corporate money these days anyways.
- angio 4y ago
  FAANGS took part in illegal surveillance programmes in the past and they are required to share data with the american government. It doesn't make any difference if they're state owned or not, their complicit.
- paganel 4y ago
  > FAANGs aren't state-controlled and Europeans do have access to the American market. When it comes to war-related issues they might as well be controlled by the US Government, the "private entity" thing is just a cover. Yes, in essence, Putin was right a few years ago when he said something like "the Internet is a CIA project".
- maccolgan 4y ago
  I think the CLOUD Acts essentially make them proxies of the state.
- cute_boi 4y ago
  FAANGs are more powerful than state-controlled in many cases. They can change politicians, change economics easily.
atlasunshrugged 4y ago
I could see an argument for social media co's but Apple? Why?
- ElectricalUnion 4y ago
  Tax evasion? Not made in the EU? Not made within EU human rights standards?
  - atlasunshrugged 4y ago
    On the first point, EU courts overturned the ruling on the landmark apple tax decision (that said, I also agree the global tax system is awful and favors bigco's). What phone is made in the EU? When I lived there the most popular devices were Apple and a variety of Chinese and Korean brands, none of which were produced in the EU. Which are made within EU human rights standards? I've never heard this claim before about Apple products.
- angio 4y ago
  As a US business, they are required by law to share any data they have with the us governement. They were also part of PRISM so they have 0 credibility about protecting EU citizens' data.
  - jonnybgood 4y ago
    What law are you referring to? I'm pretty sure no such law exists. The US government can't request any data as they please. EU governments can and do request data as well since US companies operate in EU countries.
    - angio 4y ago
      It's the CLOUD ACT. An EU entity's data stored in the EU can be requested without going through an EU court, which is insane.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

I'm not naive with regard to even friendly nations jockeying for control of the information space. But there is something uniquely irresponsible about letting foreign adversaries run algorithms on your populace.

robonerd 4y ago

Absolutely. Any country that doesn't ban foreign social media is behaving foolishly. This is true whether it's American social media in Europe, Chinese social media in America, or American social media in China (actually, they're ahead of the curve in this regard.)

xdennis 4y ago

The EU is partially reining in the abuses of those companies (and more should be done), but this shouldn't be equated to TikTok and what China is doing. FAANGs aren't state-controlled and Europeans do have access to the American market.

AngryData 4y ago
Personally I think whether something is state controlled or not matters less and less the larger corporations get. At the end of the day it still comes down to a large power imbalance between these entities and average consumers and citizens.
- giantrobot 4y ago
  > Personally I think whether something is state controlled or not matters less and less the larger corporations get. Except in China where the CCP (the only party that can control the government) has seats on the governance boards of every large company or outright owns others. Companies only exist there with the approval of the CCP (the government). There's no court in China that can overrule the CCP's leadership so effectively the CCP is the final arbiter of what is legal or not. The US government doesn't sit on the board of Apple or Google. If Apple sued the government over something they could actually win their case and the government would be bound by the court's decision and both parties could appeal that decision. I'm not saying the system in the US or EU is perfect but it is a very far cry from the system in China. Large companies are literally state controlled no matter how big they are.
  - AngryData 4y ago
    And as an average citizen, how does that change anything to me? Whether some government stooge or some corporate stooge tells me to go fuck myself, it makes not one bit of difference in the end. Both are far too powerful for me to fight and take on. Especially when government policy is mostly decided by corporate money these days anyways.
angio 4y ago
FAANGS took part in illegal surveillance programmes in the past and they are required to share data with the american government. It doesn't make any difference if they're state owned or not, their complicit.
paganel 4y ago
> FAANGs aren't state-controlled and Europeans do have access to the American market. When it comes to war-related issues they might as well be controlled by the US Government, the "private entity" thing is just a cover. Yes, in essence, Putin was right a few years ago when he said something like "the Internet is a CIA project".
maccolgan 4y ago
I think the CLOUD Acts essentially make them proxies of the state.
cute_boi 4y ago
FAANGs are more powerful than state-controlled in many cases. They can change politicians, change economics easily.

atlasunshrugged 4y ago

I could see an argument for social media co's but Apple? Why?

ElectricalUnion 4y ago
Tax evasion? Not made in the EU? Not made within EU human rights standards?
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  On the first point, EU courts overturned the ruling on the landmark apple tax decision (that said, I also agree the global tax system is awful and favors bigco's). What phone is made in the EU? When I lived there the most popular devices were Apple and a variety of Chinese and Korean brands, none of which were produced in the EU. Which are made within EU human rights standards? I've never heard this claim before about Apple products.
angio 4y ago
As a US business, they are required by law to share any data they have with the us governement. They were also part of PRISM so they have 0 credibility about protecting EU citizens' data.
- jonnybgood 4y ago
  What law are you referring to? I'm pretty sure no such law exists. The US government can't request any data as they please. EU governments can and do request data as well since US companies operate in EU countries.
  - angio 4y ago
    It's the CLOUD ACT. An EU entity's data stored in the EU can be requested without going through an EU court, which is insane.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]