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"One of the reasons Christianity is considered a reason for why the Empire fell is absolutely the culture of war and nationalism that pagan Rome had though." R

"One of the reasons Christianity is considered a reason for why the Empire fell is absolutely the culture of war and nationalism that pagan Rome had though." Really? The Eastern empire (Byzantium) was Christian through and through, and yet rather warlike and survived for 1000 more years. Even in the declining Western empire of the fifth century, there was quite a lot of fight left, with important military leaders such as Stilicho and Majorian. The problem was often the barely checked aggression within the Christian elites themselves. Both Stilicho and Majorian were killed by their internal Roman adversaries, not by an external enemy.

ceeplusplus 4y ago
Stilicho and Majorian's armies were composed of at least a plurality of Germanic troops recruited from tribes that were stopped in their migrations by Rome. The Eastern Empire (and the Empire as a whole starting around Diocletian) had to force soldiers' children to serve because they had a shortage of willing recruits. All the evidence (conscription, hereditary service, large-scale incorporation of barbarians into the legions) points to manpower shortages due to the unwillingness of native Romans to serve. Republican Rome put barbarians into auxiliary units, not the legions, because they had no need for more men in the legions. Even the Battle of Adrianople in 378 and Germanic incursions into Italy in the early 5th century did not force Rome into total mobilization of the population like when Hannibal invaded Italy. That points to a general unwillingness to defend the Roman state in the general population. Consider that Rome was able to repeatedly raise new, massive armies when Hannibal inflicted defeats, but the Eastern empire was unable to raise even a token force to combat the Goths after Adrianople. There may have been elites with fight left in them, but the average citizen did not share the attitude of those of Republican Rome.

ceeplusplus 4y ago

Stilicho and Majorian's armies were composed of at least a plurality of Germanic troops recruited from tribes that were stopped in their migrations by Rome. The Eastern Empire (and the Empire as a whole starting around Diocletian) had to force soldiers' children to serve because they had a shortage of willing recruits. All the evidence (conscription, hereditary service, large-scale incorporation of barbarians into the legions) points to manpower shortages due to the unwillingness of native Romans to serve. Republican Rome put barbarians into auxiliary units, not the legions, because they had no need for more men in the legions. Even the Battle of Adrianople in 378 and Germanic incursions into Italy in the early 5th century did not force Rome into total mobilization of the population like when Hannibal invaded Italy. That points to a general unwillingness to defend the Roman state in the general population. Consider that Rome was able to repeatedly raise new, massive armies when Hannibal inflicted defeats, but the Eastern empire was unable to raise even a token force to combat the Goths after Adrianople. There may have been elites with fight left in them, but the average citizen did not share the attitude of those of Republican Rome.