4 ms·

But couldn’t that simply be explained by GOP counties applying for less aid? So long as every county could receive funds equally, the fact some received less i

by generj 4y ago

But couldn’t that simply be explained by GOP counties applying for less aid? So long as every county could receive funds equally, the fact some received less isn’t at all damning.

colpabar 4y ago
So if someone like elon musk or peter theil did something like this, they gave $419 million to a bunch of red states all while aggressively promoting trump, would you still claim it's "not damning"? This is an example of an extremely wealthy person influencing an election, plain and simple. It's odd to me that we're all just supposed to be ok with it.
- solar-ice 4y ago
  Are there stories of red counties applying for the money and not getting it? Or perhaps it was only marketed towards Dems? What’s the argument as to what happened here?
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    From zucks own form 990 IRS filing. CTCL awarded all larger grants – on both an absolute and per capita basis to deeply Democratic urban areas. E.g. https://capitalresearch.org/article/shining-a-light-on-zuck-bucks-in-key-states/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/shining-a-light-on-zuck-...
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - generj 4y ago
      That’s not an answer though. The parent to your comment is asking what caused CTCL to give more to Democratically aligned counties. Everyone agrees it happened - I am just unconvinced it has a strictly partisan explanation. They are asking for proof it’s malicious. Just stating there is a difference in funding isn’t proof the CTCL acted with partisanship. There are many latent variables besides GOP/Dem, Urban/Rural that could cause the difference. For example when examining barriers to voting, time spent in line or number of polling places/capita are easy KPIs. Urban areas tend to score poorly on these metrics. If the funding was allocated by these metrics urban areas will win more funding. There are many reasons a totally non partisan group would prioritize grants to urban areas. Chief among them might be that partisans have deliberately underfunded urban locations and sometimes been caught saying the reason was for their partisan gain. Or the simplest explanation: a party that discourages voter turnout is in charge or rural areas. Officials in those counties are less likely to ask for funding that makes voting easier.
      - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
        > And the total amount of the grants was not determined based on population. Rather, amounts tracked with blue votes. The average grant amount per registered voter for a Biden-carried jurisdiction was more than 50 percent larger than the average for those that Trump carried. [1] >Emails from the Office of the Pennsylvania Governor and the Pennsylvania Department of State show that former Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar and an official in Gov. Tom Wolf’s office knew about private 2020 election grants and invited Democratic-leaning counties to apply, appearing to aid the selective process at a time when other counties were unaware. No email shows any official in either office providing similar information or assistance to any of the commonwealth’s Republican-leaning counties. [2] It appears that the grant process were overly influenced by politics both from an application, and an outcome perspective. I'm against privitization of election processes. [1] https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/03/02/show_me_the_zuckerbucks_how_outside_money_infiltrated_missouris_2020_election_819427.html https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/03/02/show_me_... [2] https://broadandliberty.com/2021/10/19/former-sec-of-state-boockvar-and-gov-wolf-staffer-helped-selectively-invite-counties-for-election-grants/ https://broadandliberty.com/2021/10/19/former-sec-of-state-b...
    - solar-ice 4y ago
      Ok so… who asked for the funding and didn’t get it? Did Republicans apply for large grants in equal numbers and not get any? What happened to result in Democratic areas getting most of the money? You’d think that for all this is, there’d be a sob story somewhere of the Republican counties that wanted better access to voting and didn’t get it. So… what happened?
- gzer0 4y ago
  Voting access expansion and protection should not be considered partisan. End of story.
  - jibe 4y ago
    So if we decided to channel all voter access expansion and protection funds to the Koch Brothers that would be totally fine because it should be considered non-partisan? In the most abstract sense, it isn't partisan. In the actual implementation, it is partisan.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - generj 4y ago
      I wouldn’t want all voter access funds channeled by the Koch brothers, but if they decide to fund non-partisan GOTV efforts, I would applaud it. Even if they ended up donating more to areas likely to vote their way. More voting is good period. If GOTV funding is spread unevenly then more GOTV funding to neglected areas is the solution.
irthomasthomas 4y ago
"Zuckerberg and Chan tapped prominent Republican election lawyer Michael Toner to review the grants CTCL awarded last year to counties and other jurisdictions across the country.” Toner, a former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, “discovered that more Republican jurisdictions, defined as municipalities that voted for Trump in 2020, applied for and received grants from CTCL" https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/zuckerberg-funded-elections-group-awarded-more-grants-to-gop-counties/ar-AARRjS7 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/zuckerberg-funded-el...
- tk75x 4y ago
  This would result in exactly the disparity in "dollars per vote(r)" that was pointed out above. Because if more people apply for and get the same amount of grants as a smaller group of people, then the former group will have less dollars per individual.

by generj 4y ago

But couldn’t that simply be explained by GOP counties applying for less aid? So long as every county could receive funds equally, the fact some received less isn’t at all damning.

colpabar 4y ago

So if someone like elon musk or peter theil did something like this, they gave $419 million to a bunch of red states all while aggressively promoting trump, would you still claim it's "not damning"? This is an example of an extremely wealthy person influencing an election, plain and simple. It's odd to me that we're all just supposed to be ok with it.

solar-ice 4y ago
Are there stories of red counties applying for the money and not getting it? Or perhaps it was only marketed towards Dems? What’s the argument as to what happened here?
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  From zucks own form 990 IRS filing. CTCL awarded all larger grants – on both an absolute and per capita basis to deeply Democratic urban areas. E.g. https://capitalresearch.org/article/shining-a-light-on-zuck-bucks-in-key-states/ https://capitalresearch.org/article/shining-a-light-on-zuck-...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - generj 4y ago
    That’s not an answer though. The parent to your comment is asking what caused CTCL to give more to Democratically aligned counties. Everyone agrees it happened - I am just unconvinced it has a strictly partisan explanation. They are asking for proof it’s malicious. Just stating there is a difference in funding isn’t proof the CTCL acted with partisanship. There are many latent variables besides GOP/Dem, Urban/Rural that could cause the difference. For example when examining barriers to voting, time spent in line or number of polling places/capita are easy KPIs. Urban areas tend to score poorly on these metrics. If the funding was allocated by these metrics urban areas will win more funding. There are many reasons a totally non partisan group would prioritize grants to urban areas. Chief among them might be that partisans have deliberately underfunded urban locations and sometimes been caught saying the reason was for their partisan gain. Or the simplest explanation: a party that discourages voter turnout is in charge or rural areas. Officials in those counties are less likely to ask for funding that makes voting easier.
    - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
      > And the total amount of the grants was not determined based on population. Rather, amounts tracked with blue votes. The average grant amount per registered voter for a Biden-carried jurisdiction was more than 50 percent larger than the average for those that Trump carried. [1] >Emails from the Office of the Pennsylvania Governor and the Pennsylvania Department of State show that former Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar and an official in Gov. Tom Wolf’s office knew about private 2020 election grants and invited Democratic-leaning counties to apply, appearing to aid the selective process at a time when other counties were unaware. No email shows any official in either office providing similar information or assistance to any of the commonwealth’s Republican-leaning counties. [2] It appears that the grant process were overly influenced by politics both from an application, and an outcome perspective. I'm against privitization of election processes. [1] https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/03/02/show_me_the_zuckerbucks_how_outside_money_infiltrated_missouris_2020_election_819427.html https://www.realclearpolicy.com/articles/2022/03/02/show_me_... [2] https://broadandliberty.com/2021/10/19/former-sec-of-state-boockvar-and-gov-wolf-staffer-helped-selectively-invite-counties-for-election-grants/ https://broadandliberty.com/2021/10/19/former-sec-of-state-b...
  - solar-ice 4y ago
    Ok so… who asked for the funding and didn’t get it? Did Republicans apply for large grants in equal numbers and not get any? What happened to result in Democratic areas getting most of the money? You’d think that for all this is, there’d be a sob story somewhere of the Republican counties that wanted better access to voting and didn’t get it. So… what happened?
gzer0 4y ago
Voting access expansion and protection should not be considered partisan. End of story.
- jibe 4y ago
  So if we decided to channel all voter access expansion and protection funds to the Koch Brothers that would be totally fine because it should be considered non-partisan? In the most abstract sense, it isn't partisan. In the actual implementation, it is partisan.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - generj 4y ago
    I wouldn’t want all voter access funds channeled by the Koch brothers, but if they decide to fund non-partisan GOTV efforts, I would applaud it. Even if they ended up donating more to areas likely to vote their way. More voting is good period. If GOTV funding is spread unevenly then more GOTV funding to neglected areas is the solution.

irthomasthomas 4y ago

"Zuckerberg and Chan tapped prominent Republican election lawyer Michael Toner to review the grants CTCL awarded last year to counties and other jurisdictions across the country.” Toner, a former chairman of the Federal Election Commission, “discovered that more Republican jurisdictions, defined as municipalities that voted for Trump in 2020, applied for and received grants from CTCL" https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/zuckerberg-funded-elections-group-awarded-more-grants-to-gop-counties/ar-AARRjS7 https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/zuckerberg-funded-el...

tk75x 4y ago
This would result in exactly the disparity in "dollars per vote(r)" that was pointed out above. Because if more people apply for and get the same amount of grants as a smaller group of people, then the former group will have less dollars per individual.