5 ms·

It should be unacceptable regardless of country of origin.

by eric__cartman 4y ago

rglullis 4y ago
I agree. But until then, what do you think the people should do?
- CyanBird 4y ago
  Or rather, which system is more actionable for the local public, the answer to that is ofc the US, if you can't even get your own country to not spy on its citizens either through corporate espionage or through direct gov espionage, what hope do you hold of tangling with foreign countries to coerce them to also not spy? If anything it seems hypocrite to do that!
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Sorry, I don't know which comment you are responding to. Is there any concrete action that you think people can do?
  - hungvn94 4y ago
- edm0nd 4y ago
  Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives, so that the rest of the world doesn't get stuck into pointless geopolitical disputes?
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... That's a fantasy that makes the perfect into an enemy of the good.
      - omniglottal 4y ago
        People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        >>> Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent. >> Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... > People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. You misunderstood. I'm objecting to the either/or framing that implicitly says that something like Vine should not be brought back. If you want to create an open source alternative, go ahead and I hope you're successful. However, the chances of that succeeding are much smaller, therefore it's not a good choice to focus on to solve the particular problem at hand.
        rglullis 4y ago
        You know what mastodon/pixelfed/peertube needs to be "successful"? Users. Users who are not willing to accept their data being mined. Who are not willing to be sold as eyeballs. Who are willing to pay a few bucks a year just to keep other smaller providers running. The software exists. Unlike Vine, millions of people use it already.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The license of the source code has little to no relevance on data privacy concerns, whether state or private.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        How can Google/Facebook/Twitter/Apple/TikTok track me or my users, from my Germany-hosted servers?
cybervaz 4y ago
Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. - There will always be a ruler, and which ruler is killing, slaving, censoring and selling it's own people as meat tools for foreign companies? - China will kill, torture it's own people and their families if they think they are a thread (even if remote) to their government party (CCP). - China put on a HEAVY surveilance tool and actually forced people to behave like they want using social credit - China is actively removing ANY historical filosophies, tales, traditions, religions that could be a thread to the CCP's beliefs. - Have you ever seen a CCP convention? Their plan is to remove the worlds countries boundaries in order to rule over everything from culture to politics and economics. Australia is suffering a lot on their hands, they even sent spies to patronize elections.
- rhn_mk1 4y ago
  Country of origin matters for the consequences, but doesn't matter for the principle.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. It's important to generalize in order to show that some people are having arguments about principles, and others hate China. Sometimes you mistake the latter for the former, and waste your time making principled arguments with someone who just wants to kill.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  The social credit system has been acknowledged by multiple western media outlets to have been greatly exaggerated and misreported. [0] To be sure, there are numerous areas in which the behavior of the Chinese government is concerning and unacceptable, but there is also an undeniable level of hysteria when it comes to China that is not applied to US Allies. (See: Saudi Arabia and the rest of the gulf states) [0] https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system/ https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system...
  - 4y ago

It should be unacceptable regardless of country of origin.

rglullis 4y ago

I agree. But until then, what do you think the people should do?

CyanBird 4y ago
Or rather, which system is more actionable for the local public, the answer to that is ofc the US, if you can't even get your own country to not spy on its citizens either through corporate espionage or through direct gov espionage, what hope do you hold of tangling with foreign countries to coerce them to also not spy? If anything it seems hypocrite to do that!
- rglullis 4y ago
  Sorry, I don't know which comment you are responding to. Is there any concrete action that you think people can do?
- hungvn94 4y ago
edm0nd 4y ago
Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent.
- rglullis 4y ago
  Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives, so that the rest of the world doesn't get stuck into pointless geopolitical disputes?
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... That's a fantasy that makes the perfect into an enemy of the good.
    - omniglottal 4y ago
      People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        >>> Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent. >> Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... > People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. You misunderstood. I'm objecting to the either/or framing that implicitly says that something like Vine should not be brought back. If you want to create an open source alternative, go ahead and I hope you're successful. However, the chances of that succeeding are much smaller, therefore it's not a good choice to focus on to solve the particular problem at hand.
        rglullis 4y ago
        You know what mastodon/pixelfed/peertube needs to be "successful"? Users. Users who are not willing to accept their data being mined. Who are not willing to be sold as eyeballs. Who are willing to pay a few bucks a year just to keep other smaller providers running. The software exists. Unlike Vine, millions of people use it already.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The license of the source code has little to no relevance on data privacy concerns, whether state or private.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      How can Google/Facebook/Twitter/Apple/TikTok track me or my users, from my Germany-hosted servers?

cybervaz 4y ago

Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. - There will always be a ruler, and which ruler is killing, slaving, censoring and selling it's own people as meat tools for foreign companies? - China will kill, torture it's own people and their families if they think they are a thread (even if remote) to their government party (CCP). - China put on a HEAVY surveilance tool and actually forced people to behave like they want using social credit - China is actively removing ANY historical filosophies, tales, traditions, religions that could be a thread to the CCP's beliefs. - Have you ever seen a CCP convention? Their plan is to remove the worlds countries boundaries in order to rule over everything from culture to politics and economics. Australia is suffering a lot on their hands, they even sent spies to patronize elections.

rhn_mk1 4y ago
Country of origin matters for the consequences, but doesn't matter for the principle.
pessimizer 4y ago
> Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. It's important to generalize in order to show that some people are having arguments about principles, and others hate China. Sometimes you mistake the latter for the former, and waste your time making principled arguments with someone who just wants to kill.
wbsss4412 4y ago
The social credit system has been acknowledged by multiple western media outlets to have been greatly exaggerated and misreported. [0] To be sure, there are numerous areas in which the behavior of the Chinese government is concerning and unacceptable, but there is also an undeniable level of hysteria when it comes to China that is not applied to US Allies. (See: Saudi Arabia and the rest of the gulf states) [0] https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system/ https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system...
- 4y ago