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Is this collection different from, say, Meta? I believe they collect all the same information via Instagram. And before someone says Meta is an American compan

Is this collection different from, say, Meta? I believe they collect all the same information via Instagram. And before someone says Meta is an American company, not controlled by an adversary, let me recall that it’s controlled by Zuckerberg who spent $419 million to influence US election administration in a seemingly partisan way (“democracy hacking” as another commenter said). Meta may not be YOUR adversary, but that fact is not necessarily true of all (or even most) Americans

sebast_bake 4y ago
No, it’s not different. That’s why Meta is blocked in the PRC. The west should do the same for TikTok.
rglullis 4y ago
Do you think that any of it is acceptable?
- eric__cartman 4y ago
  It should be unacceptable regardless of country of origin.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    I agree. But until then, what do you think the people should do?
    - CyanBird 4y ago
      Or rather, which system is more actionable for the local public, the answer to that is ofc the US, if you can't even get your own country to not spy on its citizens either through corporate espionage or through direct gov espionage, what hope do you hold of tangling with foreign countries to coerce them to also not spy? If anything it seems hypocrite to do that!
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Sorry, I don't know which comment you are responding to. Is there any concrete action that you think people can do?
      - hungvn94 4y ago
    - edm0nd 4y ago
      Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives, so that the rest of the world doesn't get stuck into pointless geopolitical disputes?
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... That's a fantasy that makes the perfect into an enemy of the good.
        omniglottal 4y ago
        People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        >>> Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent. >> Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... > People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. You misunderstood. I'm objecting to the either/or framing that implicitly says that something like Vine should not be brought back. If you want to create an open source alternative, go ahead and I hope you're successful. However, the chances of that succeeding are much smaller, therefore it's not a good choice to focus on to solve the particular problem at hand.
        rglullis 4y ago
        You know what mastodon/pixelfed/peertube needs to be "successful"? Users. Users who are not willing to accept their data being mined. Who are not willing to be sold as eyeballs. Who are willing to pay a few bucks a year just to keep other smaller providers running. The software exists. Unlike Vine, millions of people use it already.
  - cybervaz 4y ago
    Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. - There will always be a ruler, and which ruler is killing, slaving, censoring and selling it's own people as meat tools for foreign companies? - China will kill, torture it's own people and their families if they think they are a thread (even if remote) to their government party (CCP). - China put on a HEAVY surveilance tool and actually forced people to behave like they want using social credit - China is actively removing ANY historical filosophies, tales, traditions, religions that could be a thread to the CCP's beliefs. - Have you ever seen a CCP convention? Their plan is to remove the worlds countries boundaries in order to rule over everything from culture to politics and economics. Australia is suffering a lot on their hands, they even sent spies to patronize elections.
    - rhn_mk1 4y ago
      Country of origin matters for the consequences, but doesn't matter for the principle.
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      > Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. It's important to generalize in order to show that some people are having arguments about principles, and others hate China. Sometimes you mistake the latter for the former, and waste your time making principled arguments with someone who just wants to kill.
    - wbsss4412 4y ago
      The social credit system has been acknowledged by multiple western media outlets to have been greatly exaggerated and misreported. [0] To be sure, there are numerous areas in which the behavior of the Chinese government is concerning and unacceptable, but there is also an undeniable level of hysteria when it comes to China that is not applied to US Allies. (See: Saudi Arabia and the rest of the gulf states) [0] https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system/ https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system...
      - 4y ago
tablespoon 4y ago
> Is this collection different from, say, Meta? I believe they collect all the same information via Instagram. Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected. The important context here is we seem to be transitioning away from the era of kumbaya free market globalism into an era of tenser geopolitical rivalries and more conflict.
- judge2020 4y ago
  > Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected. Unless something is actually done - then the actor and its properties are of utmost priority in discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31852384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31852384 Why didn't the Italian government just ban data collection in this form? They want to promote EU / local companies to collect this data rather than international companies.
- CyanBird 4y ago
  > Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected Correct, therefore far more attention ought be put to domestic corporate and government spying on the public because they have got a far stronger leverage over the public's mind than foreign companies whom do not Also, wouldn't it just be funny if Meta had some internal deals to acquire Tiktoks data? Lastly, if memory serves Tiktok makes use of Oracle (approved US gov contractor) to handle US data, so this is already under scrutiny [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-tiktok-nears-deal-with-oracle-store-its-data-sources-2022-03-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-tiktok-nears-de... So it might seem that the powers that be, wants us to be attentive regarding this deal
  - sieabahlpark 4y ago
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    >> Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected >> The important context here is we seem to be transitioning away from the era of kumbaya free market globalism into an era of tenser geopolitical rivalries and more conflict. > Correct, therefore far more attention ought be put to domestic corporate and government spying on the public because they have got a far stronger leverage over the public's mind than foreign companies whom do not You're missing the point, so I quoted the context again for emphasis. To make it more explicit: the fact that US has leverage over Facebook means it's far less likely that Facebook's data collection will be used to attack US interests. That's why TikTok's collection is different, from the perspective of the US and allied countries. You can make a pretty close personal analogy: I don't care as much if a close family member collects real time location data of my movements, because I trust they don't have incentives to use it in particular ways that are very harmful to me. I care a lot more if a personal or business rival collects the same data, because their incentive is to use it in the context of their rivalry to harm me or prevent me from achieving some of my goals.
kube-system 4y ago
It’s a little bit different, because Meta operates in a much different legal environment. You give up a lot of control of your company to the CCP to operate in China, and if you don’t, you’re forced out of the market.
- rglullis 4y ago
  It's different only in paper. The US also can put lot of pressure on the companies via TLAs.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    The situation in the US is not without valid criticism , but it is not even close to comparable with the legal environment in China. The US has a judicial branch that frequently operates at odds against its own executive branch, by design.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      For the people who end up with their data on a government database, this is a distinction without a difference.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        The likelihood of that data being there and the way it is used varies greatly between the two systems. The reason you don’t see stories like this [0] in China, is because of this [1] 0: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-t... 1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
    - posterboy 4y ago
      > frequently once every blue moon? > by design that sounds much bigger than it is, a little like inteligent design. > not even close to comparable with the legal environment in China. So, you are literally saying that you are not in a position to compare them. Or at least you are saying it's so out of this world, it may be on another planet, a parallel universe even. Really, I have discovered a legitimate branch of legal research is in constitutional comparation (or whatever it's called). Sounds more promissing than it likely will be, surely a small field, but damn I'm intrigued. I do concede that this thread should focus on less whataboutism.
CyanBird 4y ago
- throwaway29812 4y ago
  China uses data from private industry to target and imprison undesirable ethnic and religious minorities at an unthinkable scale. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/09/china-big-data-program-targets-xinjiangs-muslims https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/09/china-big-data-program-t... "China bad" is a casual way of dismissing these crimes, which I find to be quite repulsive.
  - L0stRegulator 4y ago
    TikTok doesn't operate in China. All TikTok data is stored either in the USA or Singapore. There's a Dublin data center underway. Douyin is the original TikTok. It operates exclusively in China and all it's data is in China.
    - piggybox 4y ago
      Ask any TikTok employee how many meetings they have each week with people from Beijing HQ...
    - throwaway29812 4y ago
      > All TikTok data is stored either in the USA or Singapore And is still sent back to China. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... Where data is stored does not matter at all if it's still being accessed by undeclared third parties.
  - CyanBird 4y ago
    > ... > Yet something odd happened when Borden and Prater were booked into jail: A computer program spat out a score predicting the likelihood of each committing a future crime. Borden — who is black — was rated a high risk. Prater — who is white — was rated a low risk. > Two years later, we know the computer algorithm got it exactly backward. Borden has not been charged with any new crimes. Prater is serving an eight-year prison term for subsequently breaking into a warehouse and stealing thousands of dollars’ worth of electronics. > Scores like this — known as risk assessments — are increasingly common in courtrooms across the nation. They are used to inform decisions about who can be set free at every stage of the criminal justice system, from assigning bond amounts — as is the case in Fort Lauderdale — to even more fundamental decisions about defendants’ freedom. In Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Kentucky, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin, the results of such assessments are given to judges during criminal sentencing. > ... You mean, algorithms such as these above right? If so, then yeah, I feel for them, just like I feel for the black demographics living under such distopia right now in supposed democratic countries https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm... (2016)
piyh 4y ago
Meta is different because of the US fails as a state, they lose. China doesn't. Meta might still be a shitty company, but their incentives are not to gather intelligence against US citizens that could be used to conduct cyber attacks or plan for military operations.
- posterboy 4y ago
  > Meta is different because of the US fails as a state, they lose. China doesn't. Oh, so it's us vs them. Gotcha.
  - hungvn94 4y ago
  - lpcvoid 4y ago
    It always is. And I'm rather on the side of the west than the side of the CCP.
    - posterboy 4y ago
      As a European I am ... not sure I see the truth in that argument. Not anyone who speaks some form of English is automatically western, mind.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  What does Meta lose if the US fails as a state? I'm sure there are some downsides but isn't it a global company anyway?
  - piyh 4y ago
    They lose half their revenue https://s21.q4cdn.com/399680738/files/doc_financials/2022/q1/Q1-2022_Earnings-Presentation_Final.pdf https://s21.q4cdn.com/399680738/files/doc_financials/2022/q1...
    - 4y ago
_23sd 4y ago
For the biometrics part, yes: Instagram never used biometrics, or at least they didn’t until this week when they started using it for an age verification process, but even then there’s no collection of biometrics in regular usage. Facebook used faceprints until 2021, when they shut down those features under regulatory pressure, but even while the feature was active it was off by default rather than a condition of using the service.
- tiborsaas 4y ago
  They did use a video ID to capture my face from different angles, but it stopped after a few weeks.
  - _23sd 4y ago
    According to Instagram that is a manual review process, not facial recognition: https://twitter.com/InstagramComms/status/1460785610738704386 https://twitter.com/InstagramComms/status/146078561073870438...
PontifexMinimus 4y ago
> it’s controlled by Zuckerberg who spent $419 million to influence US election administration in a seemingly partisan way Like all US billionaires, then? > Meta may not be YOUR adversary, but that fact is not necessarily true of all (or even most) Americans The US government and ruling class doesn't see Meta as their adversary, even if it this the adversary of some Americans.
- mrweasel 4y ago
  There’s also the small issue that many of us aren’t Americans, so if offers little comfort that Meta is an American company.
  - secfirstmd 4y ago
    Cough...PRISM...Cough
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- hammock 4y ago
  >Like all US billionaires, then? Sheldon Adelson is the only other billionaire that comes to mind in recent times who is spending on this scale. In the 2020 cycle for Trump, he spent about 40% less than what Zuckerberg did this past cycle. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/31/sheldson-adelson-trump-republicans-election https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/31/sheldson-ade...
ppsreejith 4y ago
> let me recall that it’s controlled by Zuckerberg who spent $419 million to influence US election administration in a seemingly partisan way For more context, from: https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/policy/zuck-bucks-conspiracies https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/policy/zuck-bucks-consp... > He offered nearly half a billion dollars in grants to any election official who wanted one, as long as those officials spent it on what a lot of people would consider mundane essentials: ballot sorters, drop boxes, poll workers and — because it was 2020 — hand sanitizer. > And when those election officials applied for more money than he originally offered, he kicked in another $119 million to satisfy the rest of the requests. > At a time when Republicans are rapidly restricting access to the ballot box in states across the country, spending nearly half a billion dollars to do the exact opposite of that is tantamount to a partisan choice. Or, at least, it was bound to be viewed that way.
- generj 4y ago
  Expanding and insuring ballot box access shouldn’t be considered partisan. That it is represents a failure in whatever party seeks to restrict voting.
  - hammock 4y ago
    Part of the reason Zuck Bucks are viewed as partisan is because of the way in which they ended up being deployed. >On average, Biden counties received $2.85 per vote, compared to Trump counties that only received $0.89. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10090603/Mark-Zuckerberg-funneled-419-5MILLION-nonprofits-fund-administration-2020-election.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10090603/Mark-Zucke...
    - generj 4y ago
      But couldn’t that simply be explained by GOP counties applying for less aid? So long as every county could receive funds equally, the fact some received less isn’t at all damning.
      - 4y ago
nova22033 4y ago
in a seemingly partisan way Seemingly doing a lot of lifting here
L0stRegulator 4y ago
Let's not forget a lot of the smear campaigns against TikTok were secretly funded by Facebook/Meta https://www.engadget.com/meta-targeted-victory-tiktok-smear-campaign-133139892.html https://www.engadget.com/meta-targeted-victory-tiktok-smear-...
xeromal 4y ago
One is committing a genocide of muslims and one is playing fast and loose with your data. It's disingenuous to assume their capabilities are the same.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cwkoss 4y ago
Meta, Google and the USG are all much more relevant to my personal threat model than the CCP. CCP has little power (or motive) to imprison me as long as I don't travel there.
gonehome 4y ago
Yes - there's a difference between a company operating in a liberal democracy (the west broadly defined) with the restrictions that entails, and a company operating under control of the CCP without such restrictions or even rule of law. There are no companies independent of the state in China. The real threat from TikTok is not so much the collection of information (though that's a problem) - it's the way the CCP can leverage it to tune influence without users noticing (silencing Hong Kong or Uyghur related information for example). https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/
pjlegato 4y ago
Even if they are, that would be irrelevant, a "tu quoque fallacy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

sebast_bake 4y ago

No, it’s not different. That’s why Meta is blocked in the PRC. The west should do the same for TikTok.

rglullis 4y ago

Do you think that any of it is acceptable?

eric__cartman 4y ago
It should be unacceptable regardless of country of origin.
- rglullis 4y ago
  I agree. But until then, what do you think the people should do?
  - CyanBird 4y ago
    Or rather, which system is more actionable for the local public, the answer to that is ofc the US, if you can't even get your own country to not spy on its citizens either through corporate espionage or through direct gov espionage, what hope do you hold of tangling with foreign countries to coerce them to also not spy? If anything it seems hypocrite to do that!
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Sorry, I don't know which comment you are responding to. Is there any concrete action that you think people can do?
    - hungvn94 4y ago
  - edm0nd 4y ago
    Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives, so that the rest of the world doesn't get stuck into pointless geopolitical disputes?
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... That's a fantasy that makes the perfect into an enemy of the good.
        omniglottal 4y ago
        People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        >>> Twitter should bring back Vine so we have a US ran equivalent. >> Or maybe we should just support and adopt open source alternatives... > People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it. You misunderstood. I'm objecting to the either/or framing that implicitly says that something like Vine should not be brought back. If you want to create an open source alternative, go ahead and I hope you're successful. However, the chances of that succeeding are much smaller, therefore it's not a good choice to focus on to solve the particular problem at hand.
        rglullis 4y ago
        You know what mastodon/pixelfed/peertube needs to be "successful"? Users. Users who are not willing to accept their data being mined. Who are not willing to be sold as eyeballs. Who are willing to pay a few bucks a year just to keep other smaller providers running. The software exists. Unlike Vine, millions of people use it already.
- cybervaz 4y ago
  Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. - There will always be a ruler, and which ruler is killing, slaving, censoring and selling it's own people as meat tools for foreign companies? - China will kill, torture it's own people and their families if they think they are a thread (even if remote) to their government party (CCP). - China put on a HEAVY surveilance tool and actually forced people to behave like they want using social credit - China is actively removing ANY historical filosophies, tales, traditions, religions that could be a thread to the CCP's beliefs. - Have you ever seen a CCP convention? Their plan is to remove the worlds countries boundaries in order to rule over everything from culture to politics and economics. Australia is suffering a lot on their hands, they even sent spies to patronize elections.
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    Country of origin matters for the consequences, but doesn't matter for the principle.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > Stop generalizing the "country of origin" as if it does not matter like the Chinese Comunist Party isn't a threat to the world. It's important to generalize in order to show that some people are having arguments about principles, and others hate China. Sometimes you mistake the latter for the former, and waste your time making principled arguments with someone who just wants to kill.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
    The social credit system has been acknowledged by multiple western media outlets to have been greatly exaggerated and misreported. [0] To be sure, there are numerous areas in which the behavior of the Chinese government is concerning and unacceptable, but there is also an undeniable level of hysteria when it comes to China that is not applied to US Allies. (See: Saudi Arabia and the rest of the gulf states) [0] https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system/ https://www.wired.com/story/china-social-credit-score-system...
    - 4y ago

tablespoon 4y ago

> Is this collection different from, say, Meta? I believe they collect all the same information via Instagram. Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected. The important context here is we seem to be transitioning away from the era of kumbaya free market globalism into an era of tenser geopolitical rivalries and more conflict.

judge2020 4y ago
> Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected. Unless something is actually done - then the actor and its properties are of utmost priority in discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31852384 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31852384 Why didn't the Italian government just ban data collection in this form? They want to promote EU / local companies to collect this data rather than international companies.
CyanBird 4y ago
> Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected Correct, therefore far more attention ought be put to domestic corporate and government spying on the public because they have got a far stronger leverage over the public's mind than foreign companies whom do not Also, wouldn't it just be funny if Meta had some internal deals to acquire Tiktoks data? Lastly, if memory serves Tiktok makes use of Oracle (approved US gov contractor) to handle US data, so this is already under scrutiny [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-tiktok-nears-deal-with-oracle-store-its-data-sources-2022-03-10/ https://www.reuters.com/technology/exclusive-tiktok-nears-de... So it might seem that the powers that be, wants us to be attentive regarding this deal
- sieabahlpark 4y ago
- tablespoon 4y ago
  >> Who's doing the collecting often matters much more than what is actually collected >> The important context here is we seem to be transitioning away from the era of kumbaya free market globalism into an era of tenser geopolitical rivalries and more conflict. > Correct, therefore far more attention ought be put to domestic corporate and government spying on the public because they have got a far stronger leverage over the public's mind than foreign companies whom do not You're missing the point, so I quoted the context again for emphasis. To make it more explicit: the fact that US has leverage over Facebook means it's far less likely that Facebook's data collection will be used to attack US interests. That's why TikTok's collection is different, from the perspective of the US and allied countries. You can make a pretty close personal analogy: I don't care as much if a close family member collects real time location data of my movements, because I trust they don't have incentives to use it in particular ways that are very harmful to me. I care a lot more if a personal or business rival collects the same data, because their incentive is to use it in the context of their rivalry to harm me or prevent me from achieving some of my goals.

kube-system 4y ago

It’s a little bit different, because Meta operates in a much different legal environment. You give up a lot of control of your company to the CCP to operate in China, and if you don’t, you’re forced out of the market.

rglullis 4y ago
It's different only in paper. The US also can put lot of pressure on the companies via TLAs.
- kube-system 4y ago
  The situation in the US is not without valid criticism , but it is not even close to comparable with the legal environment in China. The US has a judicial branch that frequently operates at odds against its own executive branch, by design.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    For the people who end up with their data on a government database, this is a distinction without a difference.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      The likelihood of that data being there and the way it is used varies greatly between the two systems. The reason you don’t see stories like this [0] in China, is because of this [1] 0: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-to-unlock-pensacola-shooters-iphones.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/14/apple-refuses-barr-request-t... 1: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351
  - posterboy 4y ago
    > frequently once every blue moon? > by design that sounds much bigger than it is, a little like inteligent design. > not even close to comparable with the legal environment in China. So, you are literally saying that you are not in a position to compare them. Or at least you are saying it's so out of this world, it may be on another planet, a parallel universe even. Really, I have discovered a legitimate branch of legal research is in constitutional comparation (or whatever it's called). Sounds more promissing than it likely will be, surely a small field, but damn I'm intrigued. I do concede that this thread should focus on less whataboutism.

CyanBird 4y ago

throwaway29812 4y ago
China uses data from private industry to target and imprison undesirable ethnic and religious minorities at an unthinkable scale. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/09/china-big-data-program-targets-xinjiangs-muslims https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/09/china-big-data-program-t... "China bad" is a casual way of dismissing these crimes, which I find to be quite repulsive.
- L0stRegulator 4y ago
  TikTok doesn't operate in China. All TikTok data is stored either in the USA or Singapore. There's a Dublin data center underway. Douyin is the original TikTok. It operates exclusively in China and all it's data is in China.
  - piggybox 4y ago
    Ask any TikTok employee how many meetings they have each week with people from Beijing HQ...
  - throwaway29812 4y ago
    > All TikTok data is stored either in the USA or Singapore And is still sent back to China. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... Where data is stored does not matter at all if it's still being accessed by undeclared third parties.
- CyanBird 4y ago
  > ... > Yet something odd happened when Borden and Prater were booked into jail: A computer program spat out a score predicting the likelihood of each committing a future crime. Borden — who is black — was rated a high risk. Prater — who is white — was rated a low risk. > Two years later, we know the computer algorithm got it exactly backward. Borden has not been charged with any new crimes. Prater is serving an eight-year prison term for subsequently breaking into a warehouse and stealing thousands of dollars’ worth of electronics. > Scores like this — known as risk assessments — are increasingly common in courtrooms across the nation. They are used to inform decisions about who can be set free at every stage of the criminal justice system, from assigning bond amounts — as is the case in Fort Lauderdale — to even more fundamental decisions about defendants’ freedom. In Arizona, Colorado, Delaware, Kentucky, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Virginia, Washington and Wisconsin, the results of such assessments are given to judges during criminal sentencing. > ... You mean, algorithms such as these above right? If so, then yeah, I feel for them, just like I feel for the black demographics living under such distopia right now in supposed democratic countries https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessm... (2016)

piyh 4y ago

Meta is different because of the US fails as a state, they lose. China doesn't. Meta might still be a shitty company, but their incentives are not to gather intelligence against US citizens that could be used to conduct cyber attacks or plan for military operations.

posterboy 4y ago
> Meta is different because of the US fails as a state, they lose. China doesn't. Oh, so it's us vs them. Gotcha.
- hungvn94 4y ago
- lpcvoid 4y ago
  It always is. And I'm rather on the side of the west than the side of the CCP.
  - posterboy 4y ago
    As a European I am ... not sure I see the truth in that argument. Not anyone who speaks some form of English is automatically western, mind.
hotpotamus 4y ago
What does Meta lose if the US fails as a state? I'm sure there are some downsides but isn't it a global company anyway?
- piyh 4y ago
  They lose half their revenue https://s21.q4cdn.com/399680738/files/doc_financials/2022/q1/Q1-2022_Earnings-Presentation_Final.pdf https://s21.q4cdn.com/399680738/files/doc_financials/2022/q1...
  - 4y ago

_23sd 4y ago

For the biometrics part, yes: Instagram never used biometrics, or at least they didn’t until this week when they started using it for an age verification process, but even then there’s no collection of biometrics in regular usage. Facebook used faceprints until 2021, when they shut down those features under regulatory pressure, but even while the feature was active it was off by default rather than a condition of using the service.

tiborsaas 4y ago
They did use a video ID to capture my face from different angles, but it stopped after a few weeks.
- _23sd 4y ago
  According to Instagram that is a manual review process, not facial recognition: https://twitter.com/InstagramComms/status/1460785610738704386 https://twitter.com/InstagramComms/status/146078561073870438...

PontifexMinimus 4y ago

> it’s controlled by Zuckerberg who spent $419 million to influence US election administration in a seemingly partisan way Like all US billionaires, then? > Meta may not be YOUR adversary, but that fact is not necessarily true of all (or even most) Americans The US government and ruling class doesn't see Meta as their adversary, even if it this the adversary of some Americans.

mrweasel 4y ago
There’s also the small issue that many of us aren’t Americans, so if offers little comfort that Meta is an American company.
- secfirstmd 4y ago
  Cough...PRISM...Cough
deleted 4y ago
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hammock 4y ago
>Like all US billionaires, then? Sheldon Adelson is the only other billionaire that comes to mind in recent times who is spending on this scale. In the 2020 cycle for Trump, he spent about 40% less than what Zuckerberg did this past cycle. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/31/sheldson-adelson-trump-republicans-election https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/oct/31/sheldson-ade...

ppsreejith 4y ago

> let me recall that it’s controlled by Zuckerberg who spent $419 million to influence US election administration in a seemingly partisan way For more context, from: https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/policy/zuck-bucks-conspiracies https://www.protocol.com/newsletters/policy/zuck-bucks-consp... > He offered nearly half a billion dollars in grants to any election official who wanted one, as long as those officials spent it on what a lot of people would consider mundane essentials: ballot sorters, drop boxes, poll workers and — because it was 2020 — hand sanitizer. > And when those election officials applied for more money than he originally offered, he kicked in another $119 million to satisfy the rest of the requests. > At a time when Republicans are rapidly restricting access to the ballot box in states across the country, spending nearly half a billion dollars to do the exact opposite of that is tantamount to a partisan choice. Or, at least, it was bound to be viewed that way.

generj 4y ago
Expanding and insuring ballot box access shouldn’t be considered partisan. That it is represents a failure in whatever party seeks to restrict voting.
- hammock 4y ago
  Part of the reason Zuck Bucks are viewed as partisan is because of the way in which they ended up being deployed. >On average, Biden counties received $2.85 per vote, compared to Trump counties that only received $0.89. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10090603/Mark-Zuckerberg-funneled-419-5MILLION-nonprofits-fund-administration-2020-election.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10090603/Mark-Zucke...
  - generj 4y ago
    But couldn’t that simply be explained by GOP counties applying for less aid? So long as every county could receive funds equally, the fact some received less isn’t at all damning.
    - 4y ago

nova22033 4y ago

in a seemingly partisan way Seemingly doing a lot of lifting here

L0stRegulator 4y ago

Let's not forget a lot of the smear campaigns against TikTok were secretly funded by Facebook/Meta https://www.engadget.com/meta-targeted-victory-tiktok-smear-campaign-133139892.html https://www.engadget.com/meta-targeted-victory-tiktok-smear-...

xeromal 4y ago

One is committing a genocide of muslims and one is playing fast and loose with your data. It's disingenuous to assume their capabilities are the same.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cwkoss 4y ago

Meta, Google and the USG are all much more relevant to my personal threat model than the CCP. CCP has little power (or motive) to imprison me as long as I don't travel there.

gonehome 4y ago

Yes - there's a difference between a company operating in a liberal democracy (the west broadly defined) with the restrictions that entails, and a company operating under control of the CCP without such restrictions or even rule of law. There are no companies independent of the state in China. The real threat from TikTok is not so much the collection of information (though that's a problem) - it's the way the CCP can leverage it to tune influence without users noticing (silencing Hong Kong or Uyghur related information for example). https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/ https://stratechery.com/2020/the-tiktok-war/

pjlegato 4y ago

Even if they are, that would be irrelevant, a "tu quoque fallacy": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque