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> could have a similar societal impact by eliminating many jobs and concentrating wealth in the hands of the owners of the manufacturing lines, although this wo

> could have a similar societal impact by eliminating many jobs and concentrating wealth in the hands of the owners of the manufacturing lines, although this would seem to be a self-defeating outcome as fewer people would be able to purchase the output Not necessarily. It could enable a more radical reversion to something like a palace economy, where political and economic power are fully concentrated into an elite and away from the people, who are then made dependent on gifts from those elites for survival and comfort. People nowadays concentrate on money like it's something fundamental, but it isn't (e.g. Putin can be richer and more powerful than all of us, without owning a kopeck). Money is only a proxy for prestige and power in our current social system, and other systems are possible.

yeaso9 4y ago
You mean like now when inequality has been trending up in leaps and bounds for years, authoritarian story mode leadership forces it’s preferences on the public, and their whims change every 4-8 years, and the public does nothing but kowtow and pander to elderly people who can’t remember anything? Musk and co are not suffering. This culture is a joke. None of us are going to Mars and the beyond but we’re setting us and ours aside for another high minded story about forever human prosperity and growth. Nevermind no science allows for humans to live among the stars. Every frame of reference so far as only seen them tightly coupled to Earth. It’s clear human biology is capable of a philosophy that diverges wildly from reality. No reason at all to see this period in human society, and the people that make it up, as any less susceptible to propaganda and any more capable of their forever stories than the ancient Greeks. They may not be spewing the syntax of religion, but the semantic meaning demanded by the powers that be are no different; kowtow to the visions and hallucinations of the almighty.
wahern 4y ago
Money does have a critical characteristic: fungibility, its defining technological function. Putin stays in power primarily by redistributing kopecks. But unlike, say, land, kopecks are fungible; this moderates and limits his power. People can flee with kopecks. People can transfer kopecks to others without Putin's knowledge or say-so, manipulating social networks beyond Putin's direct control. The power of modern authoritarians is in many ways much more precarious and circumscribed than in earlier eras. This precariousness is compounded by international trade, making the value of kopecks at least partly dependent on economic performance. (In a perfectly insular economy, Putin would have much more control over kopecks, including fungibility, but you can't regress to such insularity without destroying most wealth in the country.) Notably, Putin has plenty of kopecks stashed overseas, presumably partly out of concern for the precariousness of his situation, or at least that of his family's fortunes. Money isn't power, per se. Control over social media isn't power, per se. Voting isn't power, per se. But it's difficult to discuss power without discussing the mediums by which it's exercised and allotted. In particular, power exercised through one medium might not be readily transferred to another medium.

yeaso9 4y ago

You mean like now when inequality has been trending up in leaps and bounds for years, authoritarian story mode leadership forces it’s preferences on the public, and their whims change every 4-8 years, and the public does nothing but kowtow and pander to elderly people who can’t remember anything? Musk and co are not suffering. This culture is a joke. None of us are going to Mars and the beyond but we’re setting us and ours aside for another high minded story about forever human prosperity and growth. Nevermind no science allows for humans to live among the stars. Every frame of reference so far as only seen them tightly coupled to Earth. It’s clear human biology is capable of a philosophy that diverges wildly from reality. No reason at all to see this period in human society, and the people that make it up, as any less susceptible to propaganda and any more capable of their forever stories than the ancient Greeks. They may not be spewing the syntax of religion, but the semantic meaning demanded by the powers that be are no different; kowtow to the visions and hallucinations of the almighty.

wahern 4y ago

Money does have a critical characteristic: fungibility, its defining technological function. Putin stays in power primarily by redistributing kopecks. But unlike, say, land, kopecks are fungible; this moderates and limits his power. People can flee with kopecks. People can transfer kopecks to others without Putin's knowledge or say-so, manipulating social networks beyond Putin's direct control. The power of modern authoritarians is in many ways much more precarious and circumscribed than in earlier eras. This precariousness is compounded by international trade, making the value of kopecks at least partly dependent on economic performance. (In a perfectly insular economy, Putin would have much more control over kopecks, including fungibility, but you can't regress to such insularity without destroying most wealth in the country.) Notably, Putin has plenty of kopecks stashed overseas, presumably partly out of concern for the precariousness of his situation, or at least that of his family's fortunes. Money isn't power, per se. Control over social media isn't power, per se. Voting isn't power, per se. But it's difficult to discuss power without discussing the mediums by which it's exercised and allotted. In particular, power exercised through one medium might not be readily transferred to another medium.