4 ms·

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, a

Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. The latency makes me ugh. Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting.

speedgoose 4y ago
Does your car use electronic injection or a carburettor?
- h2odragon 4y ago
  Injection, so yes; there's still more fly by wire than i like.
mike_pol 4y ago
I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?
- Nullabillity 4y ago
  In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.
  - CraigJPerry 4y ago
    >> A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Which cars have those today or in the time-frame of the F-series BMWs from TFA? Every fiat/chrysler gearbox is sloppy gooey junk thing, even their performance models have horrific manual gear shifts. I'll cut to the chase instead of listing Ford, Peugeot, etc. etc. The Porsche Cayman 982 manual shift feels awesome to use, it's a delight but that only opens up a new can of worms, the gear ratios are farrr too long (emissions targets i suppose), utterly ruining the experience. The PDK is the better choice (and it even has shorter ratios to boot!).
    - foobarian 4y ago
      I'm not a car nerd by far, and I never drove a manual shift before my Focus ST, but I am completely in love with it. I'm heartbroken that Ford stopped manufacturing those models. Edit: Reflecting more on what I like about it. I saw a number of articles or videos, like that 80s Porsche, where the shifter is wiggly or won't go into gear because of long linkages, or falls out of gear. The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear; I absolutely love this feeling. You just push the stick and it falls from 2nd to 3rd, for example. But if you're slowing down it feels like it's harder to put into 3rd but more easy to push it back up into 1st. And then the way the reverse gear is protected with a hefty spring-loaded ring is very nice. Finally, overall the shifter works smoothly, never gets stuck, seems to "know" the gear I want to go into, never falls out of gear... just lovely :-)
      - tmh88j 4y ago
        > The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear I also have an ST. I highly suggest replacing the shifter with an aftermarket short throw shifter or the shifter bracket. I think you'll like it even more. I've owned several cars with manual transmissions, and one of my biggest complaints about the ST was the stock shifter. It doesn't struggle to get into gear, but it felt light, soft and mushy compared to my other cars. I replaced mine with a short throw from Steeda and it helped a lot, but still lacks the solid bolt-action rifle feeling I was used to. The ST is a killer deal with serious performance for its price, but if you want a taste for what else is affordable out there and a step up try out a car with a Tremec TR6060 transmission[1]. They are one of the best manual transmissions on the market today and can take a beating. You should easily be able to find one on Turo if you live near any major city. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Ap...
    - replygirl 4y ago
      try splitting the difference with like a miata or a brz
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Yeah, no thanks. A good dual clutch automatic is my choice when it comes to actually driving in a sprited way. But you know what? To each their own.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - bonestamp2 4y ago
    > In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables? I don't think consumable is the right word, but I assume they meant in the sense that many cars are leased, so the drive never really owns a car -- they just "consume" cars as they move from lease to lease.
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    > Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. I learned to drive in manuals (because they're more common in the UK). I currently own two automatics and drive a variety of manuals, automatics and EVs that are kind of inherently "automatic". I don't see any difference in "driving experience" between manual and automatic. What do *you* think the difference is?
    - jjtheblunt 4y ago
      Not what you were thinking, I guess, but I push-started my manual Saab and Honda many times, could my manual Mercedes but never needed to, which you can't do with an automatic.
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        You can if you get them moving fast enough, but it's terrible for the gearbox.
        jjtheblunt 4y ago
        that would require some fast running while holding the door and steering wheel!
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  > aren’t cars consumables now? Maybe if you're in the earning high-5 figures a year bracket in SF, but for regular people, a car is likely the most or second most expensive thing they own (second to a home). New cars is something for dual-earners and rich folk, for us regular people - and I am a high income earner - new cars, even on finance, is just not an option. (I'm currently driving a used 2009 Ford Focus, <200K Km on the dial)
  - davchana 4y ago
    & to add, some of us rent home, so the car is literally anything where we have some equity (& rest the bank owns).
  - krallja 4y ago
    > high-5 figures a year bracket in SF Lower class?
wolrah 4y ago
> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been when manufacturers decide to screw with the physical interface and make it more likely to inadvertently miss Park, like the Chrysler design that killed Anton Yelchin. > I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. It's less complicated than a force feedback joystick or even a lot of modern gamepads. > The latency makes me ugh. The latency is coming from the transmission, not the shifter. > Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting. Again, it has been this way for literally decades. My 1993 Crown Vic with an AODE transmission had a shift lever based on the computer interpreting ranges of resistance from a potentiometer. The lever was literally a joystick with notches. And as the name suggests, that was a classic AOD transmission with the mechanical valvebody replaced with solenoids and an IBM PC grade processor.
- h2odragon 4y ago
  Mine is the last manual v8 Dodge dakota sold, possibly the last made. 230k miles and still have a sliver of the original clutch.
  - Hellbanevil 4y ago
- asciimike 4y ago
  2021 Tacoma Manual owner here (one of the reasons I got it). Gladiators and Broncos are also available with a manual!
  - brk 4y ago
    What about your steering, braking, and throttle controls?
themitigating 4y ago
The latency for doing what? Shifting from reverse to drive? The ZF transmissions in BMWs are very fast shifting even though they are torque converters and there are paddle shifters on the wheel.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  ZF 4HP22 in my older (4.0 litre) Range Rover, 4HP24 in my newer one with the 4.6 engine. Actually they're both the same age to within weeks, I just got the 4.6 eight years after the 4.0, but anyway - it takes about a quarter of a second to change up or down if you manually prod the gearstick coming up to some bends. It's definitely faster than the R380 manual gearboxes fitted to Discos, Defenders and manual P38s, which needs a fair bit of time in neutral to settle out before you select the next gear. This is '80s technology, mind you, with a fairly simple computer grafted on to bring it up to the white heat of the mid-'90s.
  - timc3 4y ago
    The BMW ZF is much faster. They are even using it in their M cars.
londons_explore 4y ago
A bit of gear shift latency just makes it all the more realistic!

speedgoose 4y ago

Does your car use electronic injection or a carburettor?

h2odragon 4y ago
Injection, so yes; there's still more fly by wire than i like.

mike_pol 4y ago

I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. The latency you mention is really not there. Admittedly I could not service it if it broke but aren’t cars consumables now?

Nullabillity 4y ago
In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables?! > I appreciate where you’re coming from but experiencing the joy of dual clutch automatics and their shifts in BMWs and Audis that I had the joy to diving might change your mind. Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience.
- CraigJPerry 4y ago
  >> A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Which cars have those today or in the time-frame of the F-series BMWs from TFA? Every fiat/chrysler gearbox is sloppy gooey junk thing, even their performance models have horrific manual gear shifts. I'll cut to the chase instead of listing Ford, Peugeot, etc. etc. The Porsche Cayman 982 manual shift feels awesome to use, it's a delight but that only opens up a new can of worms, the gear ratios are farrr too long (emissions targets i suppose), utterly ruining the experience. The PDK is the better choice (and it even has shorter ratios to boot!).
  - foobarian 4y ago
    I'm not a car nerd by far, and I never drove a manual shift before my Focus ST, but I am completely in love with it. I'm heartbroken that Ford stopped manufacturing those models. Edit: Reflecting more on what I like about it. I saw a number of articles or videos, like that 80s Porsche, where the shifter is wiggly or won't go into gear because of long linkages, or falls out of gear. The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear; I absolutely love this feeling. You just push the stick and it falls from 2nd to 3rd, for example. But if you're slowing down it feels like it's harder to put into 3rd but more easy to push it back up into 1st. And then the way the reverse gear is protected with a hefty spring-loaded ring is very nice. Finally, overall the shifter works smoothly, never gets stuck, seems to "know" the gear I want to go into, never falls out of gear... just lovely :-)
    - tmh88j 4y ago
      > The Ford shifter is nothing like it. My favorite thing about it is that there seems to be (maybe) some torque-induced flex between the gearbox and shifter that makes it naturally slide and "fall" into the correct next gear I also have an ST. I highly suggest replacing the shifter with an aftermarket short throw shifter or the shifter bracket. I think you'll like it even more. I've owned several cars with manual transmissions, and one of my biggest complaints about the ST was the stock shifter. It doesn't struggle to get into gear, but it felt light, soft and mushy compared to my other cars. I replaced mine with a short throw from Steeda and it helped a lot, but still lacks the solid bolt-action rifle feeling I was used to. The ST is a killer deal with serious performance for its price, but if you want a taste for what else is affordable out there and a step up try out a car with a Tremec TR6060 transmission[1]. They are one of the best manual transmissions on the market today and can take a beating. You should easily be able to find one on Turo if you live near any major city. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tremec_TR-6060_transmission#Ap...
  - replygirl 4y ago
    try splitting the difference with like a miata or a brz
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. Yeah, no thanks. A good dual clutch automatic is my choice when it comes to actually driving in a sprited way. But you know what? To each their own.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  > In what deluded world are items that cost tens of thousands of dollars consumables? I don't think consumable is the right word, but I assume they meant in the sense that many cars are leased, so the drive never really owns a car -- they just "consume" cars as they move from lease to lease.
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  > Yeah, no thanks. A good manual transmission is a core part of the driving experience. I learned to drive in manuals (because they're more common in the UK). I currently own two automatics and drive a variety of manuals, automatics and EVs that are kind of inherently "automatic". I don't see any difference in "driving experience" between manual and automatic. What do *you* think the difference is?
  - jjtheblunt 4y ago
    Not what you were thinking, I guess, but I push-started my manual Saab and Honda many times, could my manual Mercedes but never needed to, which you can't do with an automatic.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      You can if you get them moving fast enough, but it's terrible for the gearbox.
      - jjtheblunt 4y ago
        that would require some fast running while holding the door and steering wheel!
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> aren’t cars consumables now? Maybe if you're in the earning high-5 figures a year bracket in SF, but for regular people, a car is likely the most or second most expensive thing they own (second to a home). New cars is something for dual-earners and rich folk, for us regular people - and I am a high income earner - new cars, even on finance, is just not an option. (I'm currently driving a used 2009 Ford Focus, <200K Km on the dial)
- davchana 4y ago
  & to add, some of us rent home, so the car is literally anything where we have some equity (& rest the bank owns).
- krallja 4y ago
  > high-5 figures a year bracket in SF Lower class?

wolrah 4y ago

> Makes me want to go out and hug my truck, whose gear selector consists of metal sticks and pins. If it's a manual transmission or an ancient automatic, sure, but manual transmission trucks basically haven't existed for a decade or so and every automatic since the mid 90s has an electronic gear selector of some variety. Somehow the world keeps working just fine. The biggest problem that's come up with them has been when manufacturers decide to screw with the physical interface and make it more likely to inadvertently miss Park, like the Chrysler design that killed Anton Yelchin. > I'd be leery of using this device, with all that complexity, as an input for video games. It's less complicated than a force feedback joystick or even a lot of modern gamepads. > The latency makes me ugh. The latency is coming from the transmission, not the shifter. > Certainly don't want that much "systems" stuff between me and the transmission of a car I'm piloting. Again, it has been this way for literally decades. My 1993 Crown Vic with an AODE transmission had a shift lever based on the computer interpreting ranges of resistance from a potentiometer. The lever was literally a joystick with notches. And as the name suggests, that was a classic AOD transmission with the mechanical valvebody replaced with solenoids and an IBM PC grade processor.

h2odragon 4y ago
Mine is the last manual v8 Dodge dakota sold, possibly the last made. 230k miles and still have a sliver of the original clutch.
- Hellbanevil 4y ago
asciimike 4y ago
2021 Tacoma Manual owner here (one of the reasons I got it). Gladiators and Broncos are also available with a manual!
- brk 4y ago
  What about your steering, braking, and throttle controls?

themitigating 4y ago

The latency for doing what? Shifting from reverse to drive? The ZF transmissions in BMWs are very fast shifting even though they are torque converters and there are paddle shifters on the wheel.

Gordonjcp 4y ago
ZF 4HP22 in my older (4.0 litre) Range Rover, 4HP24 in my newer one with the 4.6 engine. Actually they're both the same age to within weeks, I just got the 4.6 eight years after the 4.0, but anyway - it takes about a quarter of a second to change up or down if you manually prod the gearstick coming up to some bends. It's definitely faster than the R380 manual gearboxes fitted to Discos, Defenders and manual P38s, which needs a fair bit of time in neutral to settle out before you select the next gear. This is '80s technology, mind you, with a fairly simple computer grafted on to bring it up to the white heat of the mid-'90s.
- timc3 4y ago
  The BMW ZF is much faster. They are even using it in their M cars.

londons_explore 4y ago

A bit of gear shift latency just makes it all the more realistic!