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The heavier IDEs are in real trouble given the impressive state of VS Code lately. I haven't found the need to reach for a bigger IDE than Code in a while and I

The heavier IDEs are in real trouble given the impressive state of VS Code lately. I haven't found the need to reach for a bigger IDE than Code in a while and I've been perfectly productive in JS, C, Rust and Python projects lately. Do yourself a favour and try out Code for your next project.

spacemanmatt 4y ago
I tried it and I think it sucks. JetBrains FTW.
dragonelite 4y ago
The language server protocol standard has really given some IDE like features to expendable text editors like Nvim and Emacs.
- mayama 4y ago
  After using vscode for years, I've tried nvim with lunarvim starter pack and am using it more. Using vscode without mouse is always a problem even with vim plugin. On the other hand, mouse is almost useless in nvim.
  - Lio 4y ago
    Not sure why you'd say a mouse in Neovim is useless. A mouse can be very useful in both Vim and Neovim when set up correctly, it will even work across SSH. Even just using two fingered trackpad scrolling to move the view port is something I do almost everyday without thinking about it. If you wanted to you could also highlight text, show balloon help, select windows and tab and interact with file explorers. Of course you can do all that very quickly with keyboard shortcuts, which is what I mostly do, but they option of the mouse is still there.
valcron1000 4y ago
There's no comparison between using VSCode and IntelliJ for Java development
- mmastrac 4y ago
  There's Eclipse too. It was almost always the better IDE for pure Java development. IntelliJ was always heavier and buggier whenever I tried using it.
  - spacemanmatt 4y ago
    I don't remember when that was true. JetBrains conveniently outclasses Eclipse these days.
  - bogwog 4y ago
    > IntelliJ was always heavier and buggier whenever I tried using it Google switched from Eclipse to IntelliJ for Android Studio mostly because everyone hated how heavy and buggy Eclipse was.
    - mmastrac 4y ago
      The problem wasn't Eclipse - it was Google's plugins that were buggy. I hated the transition over to Android Studio. Eclipse's Java core is by far the best of all Java IDEs: refactoring, auto-complete, editing, etc. IntelliJ had earlier support for Maven and Gradle, but it was always a less-polished IDE experience using Swing vs Eclipse's native windowing toolkit.
  - lolinder 4y ago
    Maybe it's improved in the past 3ish years, but the last time I had to use Eclipse for a project I couldn't stand it. It may have been lighter weight, but it was buggy and had many fewer helpful features (refactorings, inline hints, navigation). I couldn't wait to get back to intellij.
    - mmastrac 4y ago
      I don't think IntelliJ has added support for running non-compiling Java code yet, which was a major productivity booster for me. Eclipse's ability to debug and run a single failing unit test were massive as well. IntelliJ was always hit or miss as to whether it would allow you to run a subset. IntelliJ refactorings also were a lot less smart IMO - often trying to refactor unrelated comments and sometimes code that was unrelated but happened to be named the same thing.
arcturus17 4y ago
I went the opposite way, from Code to Jetbrains and I would find it very hard to go back. The refactoring commands in Jetbrains are outstanding.
pyr0hu 4y ago
Thanks, but no thanks. I mainly code in PHP and VS Code even with proper plugins and Intelephense can not come near PHPStorm's utility. I've tried everything for PHP nowadays, Vim + LSP, Sublime + LSP, VSCode. It's PHPStorm all the way.
devmor 4y ago
I feel the opposite way. VSCode feels clunky and disjointed compared to the experience I get from JetBrains IDEs. Also, both have 3rd party plug-ins but JetBrains seems to contain a lot more of the features I want as first class integrations whereas I generally have to find a plugin for VSCode and hope it's well maintained.
- onionisafruit 4y ago
  The first class integrations are key. I think VSCode can probably do just about everything GoLand can, but you need to configure a half dozen plugins to get there. I will say that writing a VSCode plugin seems much easier than an IntelliJ plugin. So if you need that level of customization, VSCode might be the preferred tool.
ImPleadThe5th 4y ago
I prefer Vscode to WebStorm, the plugin ecosystem is just a lot more mature, and I feel like Vscode is visually less cluttered and organized better. But I would die before I switched away from Rider or Intellij. The auto suggestions, code smells, auto refactoring, ease of debugging, I could go on. It removes so much friction from developing that I feel like I have a hand tied behind my back when I move to anything else. I often wonder if these people who recommend vscode as a "for everything" IDE have enough experience with the IDEs to know what they are missing by strong arming vscode into working for them.
Someone1234 4y ago
Unfortunately Microsoft forces .Net developers to use Visual Studio since they don't really offer a compelling .Net/C# answer in VSCode. OmniSharp exists, but outside of toying it is worse than Visual Studio Community. A lot of developers looking for that VSCode experience are actually switching to Rider, even those who already have a Visual Studio license/MSDN via their employer. Ultimately Visual Studio is just a laggy, micro-stuttery, monolith, with a UI designed to create Forms for Visual Basic back in 1995. The x64 migration has helped, but it feels like a band-aid. If you're doing Web Development in Asp.net Core in 2022 you don't really feel at home, not least of all because you may be using VSCode already to do TS/SASS/CSS/JS/etc.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  You can use Rider though.
pacifika 4y ago
I refactored a string into a variable and vscode didn’t offer to replace any other occurrences of that string in the same file
joshstrange 4y ago
Tried it, hated it. It's a fine lightweight editor but if you want to refactor or do anything complex you want something like IDEA in your pocket. It comes pretty much "Batteries included" whereas you have to build your own IDE with VSCode which I don't have the time or effort for maintaining. I get that IDEs can look scary or seem bloated but once moving first to PHPStorm then IDEA I realized a lot of my "facts" about IDEs were either completely wrong and/or the heavier weight was actually worth it. I'll be interested to see if JetBrain's new Fleet will eat into VS Code's market (it's a similar tool).
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cocochanel 4y ago
I went from Vim to VS Code to JetBrains. Today I value my time. No thanks.

spacemanmatt 4y ago

I tried it and I think it sucks. JetBrains FTW.

dragonelite 4y ago

The language server protocol standard has really given some IDE like features to expendable text editors like Nvim and Emacs.

mayama 4y ago
After using vscode for years, I've tried nvim with lunarvim starter pack and am using it more. Using vscode without mouse is always a problem even with vim plugin. On the other hand, mouse is almost useless in nvim.
- Lio 4y ago
  Not sure why you'd say a mouse in Neovim is useless. A mouse can be very useful in both Vim and Neovim when set up correctly, it will even work across SSH. Even just using two fingered trackpad scrolling to move the view port is something I do almost everyday without thinking about it. If you wanted to you could also highlight text, show balloon help, select windows and tab and interact with file explorers. Of course you can do all that very quickly with keyboard shortcuts, which is what I mostly do, but they option of the mouse is still there.

valcron1000 4y ago

There's no comparison between using VSCode and IntelliJ for Java development

mmastrac 4y ago
There's Eclipse too. It was almost always the better IDE for pure Java development. IntelliJ was always heavier and buggier whenever I tried using it.
- spacemanmatt 4y ago
  I don't remember when that was true. JetBrains conveniently outclasses Eclipse these days.
- bogwog 4y ago
  > IntelliJ was always heavier and buggier whenever I tried using it Google switched from Eclipse to IntelliJ for Android Studio mostly because everyone hated how heavy and buggy Eclipse was.
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    The problem wasn't Eclipse - it was Google's plugins that were buggy. I hated the transition over to Android Studio. Eclipse's Java core is by far the best of all Java IDEs: refactoring, auto-complete, editing, etc. IntelliJ had earlier support for Maven and Gradle, but it was always a less-polished IDE experience using Swing vs Eclipse's native windowing toolkit.
- lolinder 4y ago
  Maybe it's improved in the past 3ish years, but the last time I had to use Eclipse for a project I couldn't stand it. It may have been lighter weight, but it was buggy and had many fewer helpful features (refactorings, inline hints, navigation). I couldn't wait to get back to intellij.
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    I don't think IntelliJ has added support for running non-compiling Java code yet, which was a major productivity booster for me. Eclipse's ability to debug and run a single failing unit test were massive as well. IntelliJ was always hit or miss as to whether it would allow you to run a subset. IntelliJ refactorings also were a lot less smart IMO - often trying to refactor unrelated comments and sometimes code that was unrelated but happened to be named the same thing.

arcturus17 4y ago

I went the opposite way, from Code to Jetbrains and I would find it very hard to go back. The refactoring commands in Jetbrains are outstanding.

pyr0hu 4y ago

Thanks, but no thanks. I mainly code in PHP and VS Code even with proper plugins and Intelephense can not come near PHPStorm's utility. I've tried everything for PHP nowadays, Vim + LSP, Sublime + LSP, VSCode. It's PHPStorm all the way.

devmor 4y ago

I feel the opposite way. VSCode feels clunky and disjointed compared to the experience I get from JetBrains IDEs. Also, both have 3rd party plug-ins but JetBrains seems to contain a lot more of the features I want as first class integrations whereas I generally have to find a plugin for VSCode and hope it's well maintained.

onionisafruit 4y ago
The first class integrations are key. I think VSCode can probably do just about everything GoLand can, but you need to configure a half dozen plugins to get there. I will say that writing a VSCode plugin seems much easier than an IntelliJ plugin. So if you need that level of customization, VSCode might be the preferred tool.

ImPleadThe5th 4y ago

I prefer Vscode to WebStorm, the plugin ecosystem is just a lot more mature, and I feel like Vscode is visually less cluttered and organized better. But I would die before I switched away from Rider or Intellij. The auto suggestions, code smells, auto refactoring, ease of debugging, I could go on. It removes so much friction from developing that I feel like I have a hand tied behind my back when I move to anything else. I often wonder if these people who recommend vscode as a "for everything" IDE have enough experience with the IDEs to know what they are missing by strong arming vscode into working for them.

Someone1234 4y ago

Unfortunately Microsoft forces .Net developers to use Visual Studio since they don't really offer a compelling .Net/C# answer in VSCode. OmniSharp exists, but outside of toying it is worse than Visual Studio Community. A lot of developers looking for that VSCode experience are actually switching to Rider, even those who already have a Visual Studio license/MSDN via their employer. Ultimately Visual Studio is just a laggy, micro-stuttery, monolith, with a UI designed to create Forms for Visual Basic back in 1995. The x64 migration has helped, but it feels like a band-aid. If you're doing Web Development in Asp.net Core in 2022 you don't really feel at home, not least of all because you may be using VSCode already to do TS/SASS/CSS/JS/etc.

lostmsu 4y ago
You can use Rider though.

pacifika 4y ago

I refactored a string into a variable and vscode didn’t offer to replace any other occurrences of that string in the same file

joshstrange 4y ago

Tried it, hated it. It's a fine lightweight editor but if you want to refactor or do anything complex you want something like IDEA in your pocket. It comes pretty much "Batteries included" whereas you have to build your own IDE with VSCode which I don't have the time or effort for maintaining. I get that IDEs can look scary or seem bloated but once moving first to PHPStorm then IDEA I realized a lot of my "facts" about IDEs were either completely wrong and/or the heavier weight was actually worth it. I'll be interested to see if JetBrain's new Fleet will eat into VS Code's market (it's a similar tool).

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cocochanel 4y ago

I went from Vim to VS Code to JetBrains. Today I value my time. No thanks.