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Because those people need help. Why should FEMA only help hurricane victims in a city just hit by a hurricane? "Help everyone and give some money to Boston whe

by juve1996 4y ago

Because those people need help. Why should FEMA only help hurricane victims in a city just hit by a hurricane? "Help everyone and give some money to Boston where the weather is perfect." Sorry, I don't see how that makes any sense.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
Hurricane victims needing infrastructure is different than helping poor people because they are poor. Please state the goal of helping people with student loans. Is it because the student loans are causing them to be poorer? If yes, then you have your answer. Help all poor people, regardless if they decided to invest in a overpriced education. By the way, the national flood insurance program is a political tool to buy votes from the (previously) swing state of Florida. Taxpayers all around the US subsidize Florida homeowners who want to live in the beach and in areas prone to disaster. This is not a good thing. Continuing to invest in flood prone areas over and over again is a waste of the US’s resources. This is the type of corruption and misallocation of resources that happens when leaders tilt the scales. Subsidizing people spending their 18 to 30 years learning things or partying or whatever that people in the US and around the world are not interested in buying is also a misallocation of resources. I have no problem with government providing people a floor for standard of living and opportunity to move up. I do have a problem with government rewarding bad choices, intentional or not.
- juve1996 4y ago
  It is certainly not true. Many getting that assistance are not poor. It's not just about wealth. If you're cut off from basic necessities, you need support. You can't just eat your dollar bills. It isn't just to help the poor. It's to rebuild communities so they can be productive again, including the very wealthy in that community. > Please state the goal of helping people with student loans. Is it because the student loans are causing them to be poorer? If yes, then you have your answer. Help all poor people, regardless if they decided to invest in a overpriced education. Some would argue this. This isn't what I would argue. I would say most that would benefit are certainly not poor. > Subsidizing people spending their 18 to 30 years learning things or partying or whatever that people in the US and around the world are not interested in buying is also a misallocation of resources. You can argue that you think the benefits of loan forgiveness are not there and we shouldn't do it for x, y, and z reasons. That's valid. Your argument that loan forgiveness is invalid because everyone should get the same instead, is what I don't necessarily agree with.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I am not understanding your claim at all. Are you stating that the government should help wealthier people, even though there are poorer people? If so, we will simply have to disagree. The goal of wealth redistribution should be to close the income/wealth gap, and that means helping poor people more and rich people less. I oppose bailing out only people who borrowed for higher “education” for the same reason I oppose bailing out only people who have equity in a failed business. Some investments succeed, and some do not. Bailing them out disrupts the feedback loop for properly allocating resources in society. >Your argument that loan forgiveness is invalid because everyone should get the same instead, is what I don't necessarily agree with. Two scenarios. A person decides to enter the trades because they evaluate the cost of higher education and probabilities of future cash flow, and determine tradespeople are more needed and will earn a more appropriate ROI. Another person does not do any research and signs up for tens of thousands of loans and uses them to obtain skills society does not want to pay for. Why would society reward the second person specifically for making a bad investment and not doing their due diligence? And I am not indifferent to the fact that 18 year olds do not know the future, and anyone can make a mistake in projecting movement of supply and demand curves. Which is why I want to help all poor people, not just the ones that took out student loans that did not result in decent income paying work.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

Hurricane victims needing infrastructure is different than helping poor people because they are poor. Please state the goal of helping people with student loans. Is it because the student loans are causing them to be poorer? If yes, then you have your answer. Help all poor people, regardless if they decided to invest in a overpriced education. By the way, the national flood insurance program is a political tool to buy votes from the (previously) swing state of Florida. Taxpayers all around the US subsidize Florida homeowners who want to live in the beach and in areas prone to disaster. This is not a good thing. Continuing to invest in flood prone areas over and over again is a waste of the US’s resources. This is the type of corruption and misallocation of resources that happens when leaders tilt the scales. Subsidizing people spending their 18 to 30 years learning things or partying or whatever that people in the US and around the world are not interested in buying is also a misallocation of resources. I have no problem with government providing people a floor for standard of living and opportunity to move up. I do have a problem with government rewarding bad choices, intentional or not.

juve1996 4y ago
It is certainly not true. Many getting that assistance are not poor. It's not just about wealth. If you're cut off from basic necessities, you need support. You can't just eat your dollar bills. It isn't just to help the poor. It's to rebuild communities so they can be productive again, including the very wealthy in that community. > Please state the goal of helping people with student loans. Is it because the student loans are causing them to be poorer? If yes, then you have your answer. Help all poor people, regardless if they decided to invest in a overpriced education. Some would argue this. This isn't what I would argue. I would say most that would benefit are certainly not poor. > Subsidizing people spending their 18 to 30 years learning things or partying or whatever that people in the US and around the world are not interested in buying is also a misallocation of resources. You can argue that you think the benefits of loan forgiveness are not there and we shouldn't do it for x, y, and z reasons. That's valid. Your argument that loan forgiveness is invalid because everyone should get the same instead, is what I don't necessarily agree with.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  I am not understanding your claim at all. Are you stating that the government should help wealthier people, even though there are poorer people? If so, we will simply have to disagree. The goal of wealth redistribution should be to close the income/wealth gap, and that means helping poor people more and rich people less. I oppose bailing out only people who borrowed for higher “education” for the same reason I oppose bailing out only people who have equity in a failed business. Some investments succeed, and some do not. Bailing them out disrupts the feedback loop for properly allocating resources in society. >Your argument that loan forgiveness is invalid because everyone should get the same instead, is what I don't necessarily agree with. Two scenarios. A person decides to enter the trades because they evaluate the cost of higher education and probabilities of future cash flow, and determine tradespeople are more needed and will earn a more appropriate ROI. Another person does not do any research and signs up for tens of thousands of loans and uses them to obtain skills society does not want to pay for. Why would society reward the second person specifically for making a bad investment and not doing their due diligence? And I am not indifferent to the fact that 18 year olds do not know the future, and anyone can make a mistake in projecting movement of supply and demand curves. Which is why I want to help all poor people, not just the ones that took out student loans that did not result in decent income paying work.