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To quote Greg LeMond: it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. The

To quote Greg LeMond: it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. The difference is I'm now winging it at the boundaries of the state of the art. It certainly doesn't feel easier to be here than where I was 20 years ago (though I do feel to be in a better place). There's always much more expertise I need!

razzimatazz 4y ago
You prompted me to think of fitness - as someone who has accumulated fitness I still feel like I am suffering a lot when I run, and I can take that suffering as a bit like winging it. The difference is I am suffering/winging it at a decent pace, I'm accustomed to what suffering/winging it feels like and know that I don't need to give up, I believe I can push on. And indeed there is always more fitness that I need.
- hgomersall 4y ago
  I'll add another relevant point that I think is attributable to Bradley Wiggins, but I can't find it now: [on time trials] You should always be asking yourself if you can keep going at this pace, and if the answer is anything other than "I don't know" you've already lost.
  - totetsu 4y ago
    Yes! and how much you come to resent chasing the idiot you who kept going at that pace and set your last pb.
- mcbrit 4y ago
  Running is not training. Running is a stimulus; training is the response of the body to the stimulus. You want to come up with an ideal set of stimuli to create an efficient training response. Outside of a goal race, you shouldn't suffer when you run, especially 'a lot'. You are tearing down muscles and training energy systems that are inefficient. Slow down. Walk. Fragment runs into multiple runs. Run doubles. You'll get faster, faster. Add volume at your new, sane pace and new, sane volume up to 40-60 miles/week. Once you've achieved the slow end of 'adult fast', say sub-20m/40m/90m for 5k/10k/half, you can revisit suffering during training. You still probably shouldn't. Of course if you want/like to suffer or can only run 4 times a week at peak heat during a Georgia summer then all of this is out the window.
  - k__ 4y ago
    Interesting. I'm not much into sport, but I had the impression that training was above the goal. Like, you try to get into a situation that is harder than reality, so when you finally do the actual thing, it will be easier.
    - derbOac 4y ago
      It's complicated. What you suggest is true, but how you get to that point is different. The parent is also emphasizing high volume low intensity training which is part of many routines; high intensity interval training is another. Often the strategy is to adopt both, until you gradually converge on some target (pace over distance). Where that target is is a different issue.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - vibrolax 4y ago
    Everything fell into place for me as a runner after I joined an adult running club whose coach used Jack Daniels "Running Formula" as the basis for setting each member's training intensities and durations. It largely removed the ability/willingness to suffer as a factor in reaching one's fitness potential.
    - mythrwy 4y ago
      Jack Daniels Running Formula sounds interesting maybe I could do that! (unless it's a different Jack Daniels).
- ip26 4y ago
  Only if you keep pushing speed. At a given speed, the fitter you get the better you feel at that speed. Plus, fresh of the couch everything hurts. Some fit person's lungs might be burning, their legs might feel heavy, but the not-fit person has three different cramps, blisters, achy feet, shoulder pain, toe pain, neck pain, lung pain... that gets better fairly quickly with training. I feel the whole "it never hurts less you just get faster" viewpoint is demoralizing & misleading, which doesn't help when people are struggling to stay fit.
jonplackett 4y ago
This is a great point well explained. The more you know the more you feel able to wing. And the more chance your winging has of coming off. Einstein probably felt like he was winging it with General Relativity, until he wasn’t.
- k__ 4y ago
  Good point. High-tech feeling like magic is something that comes to mind. When I try new ideas, I sometimes get the feeling they have merit in a way I can't explain. So, when people ask my why I'm working on X or Y, I can't really give them satisfying answers.
kryogen1c 4y ago
> it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. Yes, I believe the gp has missed the point of the article. The lesson from "your to-do list isn't difficult, it's impossible" is not nihilism. The point is not that no one is good at anything so why bother; the point is that the feeling of overwhelm, dread, and depression from an impossible- seeming to-do list is rooted in false assumptions. Your to-do list doesn't seem impossibly long, it IS impossibly long! You are born with a to-do list and you will die with a to-do list - but that's OK. We're all in the same boat. Another helpful way to think about this is a math analogy. Your knowledge is a circle or sphere that has your literal area of expertise. The more your learn, the larger it gets - but you also gain more contact with the unknown. That is the lesson. Imposter syndrome demystified. Only a fool feels in complete control. One simply does what one can.
- toss1 4y ago
  >> One simply does what one can. Exactly. Long ago, I built a task management app for myself and my company. After using it for a while, I looked at the overview and found that I had something like 768 hours of Urgent and High priority tasks due in the next two weeks. There are only 336 hours total in two weeks (nevermind sleeping, eating, traveling, etc...). Moreover, this was not atypical of the list of things on my plate, it was just that now it had been collected as actual data. No amount of working faster, trimming, delegating, etc. was going to get this done. The realization is that things WILL slip, even so much that some never get done. The goal is just to keep the critical things from slipping so much that you are taken out of the game. Also recognize that this is OK, and don't beatup myself or others about it (and that beating on myself or others only distracts and prevents the tasks from getting done). Just get on with what you can get on with.
- fallous 4y ago
  Over the years I've learned to be suspicious of simple solutions to difficult problems and those who assert such solutions. When trying to convey that healthy skepticism to others I tend to use the phrase "beware those who express the certainty that can only be born out of ignorance or a swindle." The analogy I use to explain how the acquisition of knowledge leads to humility is akin to climbing. You start in a ditch and can only see a single mountain that you must ascend to be knowledgeable. Once you reach the peak of that mountain you are greeted with an entire new range of mountains that would remain hidden from you without the benefit of your newfound perspective. You may also safely assume that beyond each of those mountains lies yet another set of partially or completely obscured mountain ranges. As Socrates said, "if I am wise it is only in that I know what I do not know."
SilasX 4y ago
I see it as a case of the Availability Heuristic[1] striking hard. Say you make 100 decisions in a day, and your expertise yields an obvious, high-quality answer in 98 of them. When you think back to that day, the remaining 2 (which didn’t so yield) will dominate your memory of what happened. In that case, it will feel like all you did was make non-rigorous, poorly-grounded guesses … but that impression is wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
AlwaysRock 4y ago
Yeah getting "good" at a lot of things is just having been in the situation once or twice so you are less stressed. It doesnt mean you made the right decision the first time or even that you will make the right decision this time. Just that you can react faster than the first time.

razzimatazz 4y ago

You prompted me to think of fitness - as someone who has accumulated fitness I still feel like I am suffering a lot when I run, and I can take that suffering as a bit like winging it. The difference is I am suffering/winging it at a decent pace, I'm accustomed to what suffering/winging it feels like and know that I don't need to give up, I believe I can push on. And indeed there is always more fitness that I need.

hgomersall 4y ago
I'll add another relevant point that I think is attributable to Bradley Wiggins, but I can't find it now: [on time trials] You should always be asking yourself if you can keep going at this pace, and if the answer is anything other than "I don't know" you've already lost.
- totetsu 4y ago
  Yes! and how much you come to resent chasing the idiot you who kept going at that pace and set your last pb.
mcbrit 4y ago
Running is not training. Running is a stimulus; training is the response of the body to the stimulus. You want to come up with an ideal set of stimuli to create an efficient training response. Outside of a goal race, you shouldn't suffer when you run, especially 'a lot'. You are tearing down muscles and training energy systems that are inefficient. Slow down. Walk. Fragment runs into multiple runs. Run doubles. You'll get faster, faster. Add volume at your new, sane pace and new, sane volume up to 40-60 miles/week. Once you've achieved the slow end of 'adult fast', say sub-20m/40m/90m for 5k/10k/half, you can revisit suffering during training. You still probably shouldn't. Of course if you want/like to suffer or can only run 4 times a week at peak heat during a Georgia summer then all of this is out the window.
- k__ 4y ago
  Interesting. I'm not much into sport, but I had the impression that training was above the goal. Like, you try to get into a situation that is harder than reality, so when you finally do the actual thing, it will be easier.
  - derbOac 4y ago
    It's complicated. What you suggest is true, but how you get to that point is different. The parent is also emphasizing high volume low intensity training which is part of many routines; high intensity interval training is another. Often the strategy is to adopt both, until you gradually converge on some target (pace over distance). Where that target is is a different issue.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- vibrolax 4y ago
  Everything fell into place for me as a runner after I joined an adult running club whose coach used Jack Daniels "Running Formula" as the basis for setting each member's training intensities and durations. It largely removed the ability/willingness to suffer as a factor in reaching one's fitness potential.
  - mythrwy 4y ago
    Jack Daniels Running Formula sounds interesting maybe I could do that! (unless it's a different Jack Daniels).
ip26 4y ago
Only if you keep pushing speed. At a given speed, the fitter you get the better you feel at that speed. Plus, fresh of the couch everything hurts. Some fit person's lungs might be burning, their legs might feel heavy, but the not-fit person has three different cramps, blisters, achy feet, shoulder pain, toe pain, neck pain, lung pain... that gets better fairly quickly with training. I feel the whole "it never hurts less you just get faster" viewpoint is demoralizing & misleading, which doesn't help when people are struggling to stay fit.

jonplackett 4y ago

This is a great point well explained. The more you know the more you feel able to wing. And the more chance your winging has of coming off. Einstein probably felt like he was winging it with General Relativity, until he wasn’t.

k__ 4y ago
Good point. High-tech feeling like magic is something that comes to mind. When I try new ideas, I sometimes get the feeling they have merit in a way I can't explain. So, when people ask my why I'm working on X or Y, I can't really give them satisfying answers.

kryogen1c 4y ago

> it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. Yes, I believe the gp has missed the point of the article. The lesson from "your to-do list isn't difficult, it's impossible" is not nihilism. The point is not that no one is good at anything so why bother; the point is that the feeling of overwhelm, dread, and depression from an impossible- seeming to-do list is rooted in false assumptions. Your to-do list doesn't seem impossibly long, it IS impossibly long! You are born with a to-do list and you will die with a to-do list - but that's OK. We're all in the same boat. Another helpful way to think about this is a math analogy. Your knowledge is a circle or sphere that has your literal area of expertise. The more your learn, the larger it gets - but you also gain more contact with the unknown. That is the lesson. Imposter syndrome demystified. Only a fool feels in complete control. One simply does what one can.

toss1 4y ago
>> One simply does what one can. Exactly. Long ago, I built a task management app for myself and my company. After using it for a while, I looked at the overview and found that I had something like 768 hours of Urgent and High priority tasks due in the next two weeks. There are only 336 hours total in two weeks (nevermind sleeping, eating, traveling, etc...). Moreover, this was not atypical of the list of things on my plate, it was just that now it had been collected as actual data. No amount of working faster, trimming, delegating, etc. was going to get this done. The realization is that things WILL slip, even so much that some never get done. The goal is just to keep the critical things from slipping so much that you are taken out of the game. Also recognize that this is OK, and don't beatup myself or others about it (and that beating on myself or others only distracts and prevents the tasks from getting done). Just get on with what you can get on with.
fallous 4y ago
Over the years I've learned to be suspicious of simple solutions to difficult problems and those who assert such solutions. When trying to convey that healthy skepticism to others I tend to use the phrase "beware those who express the certainty that can only be born out of ignorance or a swindle." The analogy I use to explain how the acquisition of knowledge leads to humility is akin to climbing. You start in a ditch and can only see a single mountain that you must ascend to be knowledgeable. Once you reach the peak of that mountain you are greeted with an entire new range of mountains that would remain hidden from you without the benefit of your newfound perspective. You may also safely assume that beyond each of those mountains lies yet another set of partially or completely obscured mountain ranges. As Socrates said, "if I am wise it is only in that I know what I do not know."

SilasX 4y ago

I see it as a case of the Availability Heuristic[1] striking hard. Say you make 100 decisions in a day, and your expertise yields an obvious, high-quality answer in 98 of them. When you think back to that day, the remaining 2 (which didn’t so yield) will dominate your memory of what happened. In that case, it will feel like all you did was make non-rigorous, poorly-grounded guesses … but that impression is wrong. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

AlwaysRock 4y ago

Yeah getting "good" at a lot of things is just having been in the situation once or twice so you are less stressed. It doesnt mean you made the right decision the first time or even that you will make the right decision this time. Just that you can react faster than the first time.