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Any life philosophy that helps one get through the day in a positive way is good. I do have a nit to pick with part of this one. It leans on the idea that "ever

Any life philosophy that helps one get through the day in a positive way is good. I do have a nit to pick with part of this one. It leans on the idea that "everyone is winging it all the time" and links to a Guardian opinion(?) piece where they pull quote from people who can't read a clock or tie their shoes. I think that's both not the right level of assumed incompetence that the author wanted to convey, but also reinforcement of a comforting excuse for failing to flourish. There is such a thing as expertise, and it (almost) always takes a lot of work to achieve it. So it both denigrates those who have worked hard to be competent in their field and gives aspirationals an out that potentially stunts their growth. I agree that the mantra applies in some circumstances, like casual social interaction (although I'm sure there are subject matter experts in that realm too who could out-chat any of us), but applying it to your career and goals seems self-defeating to me. But again, we are all different and different motivations work on each of us. Just my unsolicited opinion.

herbertl 4y ago
Your final sentence really resonates. I think for some people, a note of pessimism is such a relief and freeing (e.g., "Oh thank goodness, I'd never have been able to meet that deadline anyway. Now let me get started on it"), but for others, that same note of pessimism causes inaction ("Why would I bother trying if it's impossible?! Not even worth getting started")
__t__ 4y ago
I agree that expertise is a thing, but its my belief that often this expertise is acquired by "winging it" or doing something without really having a clear path of how to do said thing. This is what I got from that line, at least
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Ma8ee 4y ago
Of course there is something like expertise. But the really accomplished experts are winging it most of us all, because they are at the frontiers of human knowledge, trying things that no one has tried before, stepping where no one has stepped before. So what else can they do than wing it. And regarding the possibility that someone becomes an accomplished expert in a field and then never tries anything new? It must be exceedingly rare. If you don't have the temperament to always try new things, you rarely become a true expert. And a true expert that can't try new things rapidly becomes bored to death.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  And there's no innovation without that ability to push boundaries, feel on the edge, and occasionally screw things up. Who dares, wins. All pioneers are 'imposters', out of time and place, or alone behind enemy lines, until they look back one day and see others following and realise they're a leader.
hgomersall 4y ago
To quote Greg LeMond: it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. The difference is I'm now winging it at the boundaries of the state of the art. It certainly doesn't feel easier to be here than where I was 20 years ago (though I do feel to be in a better place). There's always much more expertise I need!
- razzimatazz 4y ago
  You prompted me to think of fitness - as someone who has accumulated fitness I still feel like I am suffering a lot when I run, and I can take that suffering as a bit like winging it. The difference is I am suffering/winging it at a decent pace, I'm accustomed to what suffering/winging it feels like and know that I don't need to give up, I believe I can push on. And indeed there is always more fitness that I need.
  - hgomersall 4y ago
    I'll add another relevant point that I think is attributable to Bradley Wiggins, but I can't find it now: [on time trials] You should always be asking yourself if you can keep going at this pace, and if the answer is anything other than "I don't know" you've already lost.
    - totetsu 4y ago
      Yes! and how much you come to resent chasing the idiot you who kept going at that pace and set your last pb.
  - mcbrit 4y ago
    Running is not training. Running is a stimulus; training is the response of the body to the stimulus. You want to come up with an ideal set of stimuli to create an efficient training response. Outside of a goal race, you shouldn't suffer when you run, especially 'a lot'. You are tearing down muscles and training energy systems that are inefficient. Slow down. Walk. Fragment runs into multiple runs. Run doubles. You'll get faster, faster. Add volume at your new, sane pace and new, sane volume up to 40-60 miles/week. Once you've achieved the slow end of 'adult fast', say sub-20m/40m/90m for 5k/10k/half, you can revisit suffering during training. You still probably shouldn't. Of course if you want/like to suffer or can only run 4 times a week at peak heat during a Georgia summer then all of this is out the window.
davedx 4y ago
I agree with you. However "seems self-defeating to me" I think is kind of the point of his essay: instead of letting your deficiencies defeat you, accept them then throw yourself at improving yourself with that acceptance behind you.
verisimi 4y ago
The insight provided is summed up at the end, here: > In short: we can't ever get free from the limited and vulnerable and uncertain situation in which we find ourselves. But when you grasp that you'll never get free from it, that's when you're finally free in it – free to focus on the hard things, instead of the impossible ones, and to give this somewhat preposterous business of being a human everything you've got. You say: > but applying it to your career and goals seems self-defeating to me What about applying the insight to the concept of 'a career' itself? Ie not as something to make your career better, as if that is the obvious only answer. Many take it for granted that career/money/etc is what life is about... but is it? If time is over as quickly as that (as the author says) is the 'best' use of one's time spent in a career? Is 'a career and all that' a distraction from getting a better understanding of existence and one's place in it? Or from following one's heart and allowing oneself to be guided by what one uncovers within as 'right', as opposed to whatever external metrics are provided and might not (ultimately) be in your favour?
larsnystrom 4y ago
I think the author was just trying to be nice to the reader. The worst case scenario when suffering from impostor syndrome is not that everyone is winging it all the time, but rather that you are in fact not very good at what you're doing, you may never become good at it and the people around you know that already. But I think the main point of the article still stands: Accept that you're not good at something, stop worrying about it and try the best you can anyway. Usually, after doing that for a while, you end up actually becoming good at it.
- twelve40 4y ago
  haha yes i read something similar between the lines : ) the author presented a very charitable version of this.
ryandvm 4y ago
After the last decade, I now believe the "everyone is winging it all the time" theory more than ever. I used to think people in power really had their shit together (CEOs, judges, doctors, politicians, etc.) but it turns out that it's just regular dumbasses everywhere. Hell, just look at the testimony from the January 6th hearings. These people were running the most powerful organization in human history and they were absolutely batshit stupid. Crazy yes, but also just plain stupid. Totally incapable of assembling a coherent worldview. Sure there are experts, but they became experts by focusing their energies on their discipline. They don't have time for political machinations. The people _running_ everything are by and large just bullshitting their way to the top.
- mmmmmmno 4y ago
- syl_sau 4y ago
  I'm not sure what you're referring to with the Jan 6th hearings (I don't really follow US news), but in my opinion it's certainly the case that politics, media and administration are the privileged domains for which the phrase "everyone is winging it all the time" makes the most sense. It's infuriating but I gather it's unlikely to be true for most other things in life which require, as the parent comment pointed out, actual expertise. When I think of all my models, whether directors, writers, painters or engineers, they've always struck me as especially smart, and this feeling seems to always correlate with how humble they are and how old the interview I am watching is. I guess they mostly talk about the thing they do for a living. Also, I've noticed a decrease in global intelligence, and that probably makes people look much more stupid in comparison. In fact, I don't believe expertise makes you brilliant on all fronts -- arguably, it may signify the exact opposite. Take an artist, e.g. an actor or a painter, that is someone who spends most of their time learning their own specific craft, why should we listen to their takes on things unrelated to their activities more than the average person? It makes no sense, but sometimes we hear musicians, actors, etc. give their undue opinions on various matters. And so we stumble upon the fact that they have, like most of us, no clue on most things in life, just like us. And that's okay I guess.
bjackman 4y ago
I think both are true: there _is_ such a thing as expertise and it's worth making huge sacrifices to develop it. But you cannot be an expert in every aspect of an endeavour that you are involved in. You have to be winging it in some regard. A very common example is being an expert programmer who must turn their hand to project planning or politics or UX design in order to translate their engineering excellence into actual success. You can become an expert in each of those things too, but there's always another field of challenge around the corner. It's worthwhile to become great at each of those things as they arise but you have to escape from the longing to never be bad at anything again. Edit: after more pondering, I don't actually think there are any project planning experts. I've never seen it done successfully, _even_ when you take this article's advice and admit that various aspects of planning (like time estimation) are hopeless. So I guess the hopelessness is fractal in some places.

herbertl 4y ago

Your final sentence really resonates. I think for some people, a note of pessimism is such a relief and freeing (e.g., "Oh thank goodness, I'd never have been able to meet that deadline anyway. Now let me get started on it"), but for others, that same note of pessimism causes inaction ("Why would I bother trying if it's impossible?! Not even worth getting started")

__t__ 4y ago

I agree that expertise is a thing, but its my belief that often this expertise is acquired by "winging it" or doing something without really having a clear path of how to do said thing. This is what I got from that line, at least

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Ma8ee 4y ago

Of course there is something like expertise. But the really accomplished experts are winging it most of us all, because they are at the frontiers of human knowledge, trying things that no one has tried before, stepping where no one has stepped before. So what else can they do than wing it. And regarding the possibility that someone becomes an accomplished expert in a field and then never tries anything new? It must be exceedingly rare. If you don't have the temperament to always try new things, you rarely become a true expert. And a true expert that can't try new things rapidly becomes bored to death.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
And there's no innovation without that ability to push boundaries, feel on the edge, and occasionally screw things up. Who dares, wins. All pioneers are 'imposters', out of time and place, or alone behind enemy lines, until they look back one day and see others following and realise they're a leader.

hgomersall 4y ago

To quote Greg LeMond: it never gets easier, you just get faster. As someone who arguably has accumulated expertise, I still feel like I'm winging it a lot. The difference is I'm now winging it at the boundaries of the state of the art. It certainly doesn't feel easier to be here than where I was 20 years ago (though I do feel to be in a better place). There's always much more expertise I need!

razzimatazz 4y ago
You prompted me to think of fitness - as someone who has accumulated fitness I still feel like I am suffering a lot when I run, and I can take that suffering as a bit like winging it. The difference is I am suffering/winging it at a decent pace, I'm accustomed to what suffering/winging it feels like and know that I don't need to give up, I believe I can push on. And indeed there is always more fitness that I need.
- hgomersall 4y ago
  I'll add another relevant point that I think is attributable to Bradley Wiggins, but I can't find it now: [on time trials] You should always be asking yourself if you can keep going at this pace, and if the answer is anything other than "I don't know" you've already lost.
  - totetsu 4y ago
    Yes! and how much you come to resent chasing the idiot you who kept going at that pace and set your last pb.
- mcbrit 4y ago
  Running is not training. Running is a stimulus; training is the response of the body to the stimulus. You want to come up with an ideal set of stimuli to create an efficient training response. Outside of a goal race, you shouldn't suffer when you run, especially 'a lot'. You are tearing down muscles and training energy systems that are inefficient. Slow down. Walk. Fragment runs into multiple runs. Run doubles. You'll get faster, faster. Add volume at your new, sane pace and new, sane volume up to 40-60 miles/week. Once you've achieved the slow end of 'adult fast', say sub-20m/40m/90m for 5k/10k/half, you can revisit suffering during training. You still probably shouldn't. Of course if you want/like to suffer or can only run 4 times a week at peak heat during a Georgia summer then all of this is out the window.

davedx 4y ago

I agree with you. However "seems self-defeating to me" I think is kind of the point of his essay: instead of letting your deficiencies defeat you, accept them then throw yourself at improving yourself with that acceptance behind you.

verisimi 4y ago

The insight provided is summed up at the end, here: > In short: we can't ever get free from the limited and vulnerable and uncertain situation in which we find ourselves. But when you grasp that you'll never get free from it, that's when you're finally free in it – free to focus on the hard things, instead of the impossible ones, and to give this somewhat preposterous business of being a human everything you've got. You say: > but applying it to your career and goals seems self-defeating to me What about applying the insight to the concept of 'a career' itself? Ie not as something to make your career better, as if that is the obvious only answer. Many take it for granted that career/money/etc is what life is about... but is it? If time is over as quickly as that (as the author says) is the 'best' use of one's time spent in a career? Is 'a career and all that' a distraction from getting a better understanding of existence and one's place in it? Or from following one's heart and allowing oneself to be guided by what one uncovers within as 'right', as opposed to whatever external metrics are provided and might not (ultimately) be in your favour?

larsnystrom 4y ago

I think the author was just trying to be nice to the reader. The worst case scenario when suffering from impostor syndrome is not that everyone is winging it all the time, but rather that you are in fact not very good at what you're doing, you may never become good at it and the people around you know that already. But I think the main point of the article still stands: Accept that you're not good at something, stop worrying about it and try the best you can anyway. Usually, after doing that for a while, you end up actually becoming good at it.

twelve40 4y ago
haha yes i read something similar between the lines : ) the author presented a very charitable version of this.

ryandvm 4y ago

After the last decade, I now believe the "everyone is winging it all the time" theory more than ever. I used to think people in power really had their shit together (CEOs, judges, doctors, politicians, etc.) but it turns out that it's just regular dumbasses everywhere. Hell, just look at the testimony from the January 6th hearings. These people were running the most powerful organization in human history and they were absolutely batshit stupid. Crazy yes, but also just plain stupid. Totally incapable of assembling a coherent worldview. Sure there are experts, but they became experts by focusing their energies on their discipline. They don't have time for political machinations. The people _running_ everything are by and large just bullshitting their way to the top.

mmmmmmno 4y ago
syl_sau 4y ago
I'm not sure what you're referring to with the Jan 6th hearings (I don't really follow US news), but in my opinion it's certainly the case that politics, media and administration are the privileged domains for which the phrase "everyone is winging it all the time" makes the most sense. It's infuriating but I gather it's unlikely to be true for most other things in life which require, as the parent comment pointed out, actual expertise. When I think of all my models, whether directors, writers, painters or engineers, they've always struck me as especially smart, and this feeling seems to always correlate with how humble they are and how old the interview I am watching is. I guess they mostly talk about the thing they do for a living. Also, I've noticed a decrease in global intelligence, and that probably makes people look much more stupid in comparison. In fact, I don't believe expertise makes you brilliant on all fronts -- arguably, it may signify the exact opposite. Take an artist, e.g. an actor or a painter, that is someone who spends most of their time learning their own specific craft, why should we listen to their takes on things unrelated to their activities more than the average person? It makes no sense, but sometimes we hear musicians, actors, etc. give their undue opinions on various matters. And so we stumble upon the fact that they have, like most of us, no clue on most things in life, just like us. And that's okay I guess.

bjackman 4y ago

I think both are true: there _is_ such a thing as expertise and it's worth making huge sacrifices to develop it. But you cannot be an expert in every aspect of an endeavour that you are involved in. You have to be winging it in some regard. A very common example is being an expert programmer who must turn their hand to project planning or politics or UX design in order to translate their engineering excellence into actual success. You can become an expert in each of those things too, but there's always another field of challenge around the corner. It's worthwhile to become great at each of those things as they arise but you have to escape from the longing to never be bad at anything again. Edit: after more pondering, I don't actually think there are any project planning experts. I've never seen it done successfully, _even_ when you take this article's advice and admit that various aspects of planning (like time estimation) are hopeless. So I guess the hopelessness is fractal in some places.