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This mindset is why Linux will always have basic usability problems. > I recommend learning a bit about how your filesystem works and why it can't find linked

This mindset is why Linux will always have basic usability problems. > I recommend learning a bit about how your filesystem works and why it can't find linked files from within an archive. This is essential computing knowledge. Really? Is that _really_ essential computing knowledge? On macOS, you download a disk image, then drag the icon into the application directory. Many publishers include a shortcut to the application directory and a background image with an arrow and instructions. It's primitive, but it works, and hasn't needed to change in like, 20 years. It requires no knowledge of linked files, or even what a disk image is. Drag and drop. Done. If you can't install an app like that on most Linux distros (I don't think I've ever seen that), then Thunderbird probably shouldn't suggest that as an option. I've moved away from using Linux as an everyday OS because all these little usability things add up and suck too much of my time.

School-Cotton 4y ago
> This mindset is why Linux will always have basic usability problems. It works fine for me! People who want to run macOS can do so. Why does everyone act like a free product not being everything for everyone is some kind of moral failing?
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  > Why does everyone act like a free product not being everything for everyone is some kind of moral failing? Probably because the free software movement is making (very vocally) it a moral failing that all software should be free. If all software must be free, then all free software must be everything for everyone.
  - School-Cotton 4y ago
    This RMS-style ideological "free software movement" is a tiny minority of the people who actually use, work on, or care about software like Linux. It's best to just ignore them.
Tainnor 4y ago
If you expect Linux to be like macOS, you can only be disappointed. It is a different operating system with completely different trade-offs. People are trying to improve usability on Linux (and things have changed substantially for the better since I first used Linux in 2006), but generally, the OS and software will hold your hand less than macOS. Actually, even Windows probably holds your hand less, macOS is clearly an outlier here. People who like using Linux generally put up with the occasional nuisance or the necessity to sometimes dig a bit deeper when there's a problem for the increased flexibility and independence.
absove 4y ago
On ubuntu you open Software, search thunderbird, and click the install button. Or you open the terminal and type sudo apt-get install thunderbird. How come you were able to learn how to do it by drag-and-drop on macOS, even though installing an application by D&D is completely unintuitive and unique to apple, but learning how to do it the linux way is an insurmontable task that you can't expect normal people to figure out?
- hypertele-Xii 4y ago
  Imagine if the web worked like that: You couldn't click a link that takes you where you wanna go, instead it's "essential computing knowledge" that you must open a separate tab, type the name of the other page you wanted into a search box and find the page you were looking for on the results page. Why is it so hard to have a button that installs Thunderbird?
  - soulofmischief 4y ago
    On a brand-new linux desktop, I click the terminal icon and run the following command: `dnf install thunderbird` And I get thunderbird. I'm sorry, but any reasonably complex system is going to come with a basic reading requirement. This system is much more smooth and off-the-shelf than Windows or OS X package management. Linux operating systems by far have the best modern package management. We can blame traffic engineers all day for naive drivers, or we can compromise and hold both engineers and users accountable, requiring appropriate certification. If reading a few pages of a quickstart manual is too hard, a simple Google search of "How to install programs on <Linux Distribution>" will immediately show you what you need. If you can't think to do this, or feel entitled to not do it, the problem is indeed between the chair and keyboard. Any user who feels this way is in desperate need of basic research skills.

School-Cotton 4y ago

> This mindset is why Linux will always have basic usability problems. It works fine for me! People who want to run macOS can do so. Why does everyone act like a free product not being everything for everyone is some kind of moral failing?

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
> Why does everyone act like a free product not being everything for everyone is some kind of moral failing? Probably because the free software movement is making (very vocally) it a moral failing that all software should be free. If all software must be free, then all free software must be everything for everyone.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  This RMS-style ideological "free software movement" is a tiny minority of the people who actually use, work on, or care about software like Linux. It's best to just ignore them.

Tainnor 4y ago

If you expect Linux to be like macOS, you can only be disappointed. It is a different operating system with completely different trade-offs. People are trying to improve usability on Linux (and things have changed substantially for the better since I first used Linux in 2006), but generally, the OS and software will hold your hand less than macOS. Actually, even Windows probably holds your hand less, macOS is clearly an outlier here. People who like using Linux generally put up with the occasional nuisance or the necessity to sometimes dig a bit deeper when there's a problem for the increased flexibility and independence.

absove 4y ago

On ubuntu you open Software, search thunderbird, and click the install button. Or you open the terminal and type sudo apt-get install thunderbird. How come you were able to learn how to do it by drag-and-drop on macOS, even though installing an application by D&D is completely unintuitive and unique to apple, but learning how to do it the linux way is an insurmontable task that you can't expect normal people to figure out?

hypertele-Xii 4y ago
Imagine if the web worked like that: You couldn't click a link that takes you where you wanna go, instead it's "essential computing knowledge" that you must open a separate tab, type the name of the other page you wanted into a search box and find the page you were looking for on the results page. Why is it so hard to have a button that installs Thunderbird?
- soulofmischief 4y ago
  On a brand-new linux desktop, I click the terminal icon and run the following command: `dnf install thunderbird` And I get thunderbird. I'm sorry, but any reasonably complex system is going to come with a basic reading requirement. This system is much more smooth and off-the-shelf than Windows or OS X package management. Linux operating systems by far have the best modern package management. We can blame traffic engineers all day for naive drivers, or we can compromise and hold both engineers and users accountable, requiring appropriate certification. If reading a few pages of a quickstart manual is too hard, a simple Google search of "How to install programs on <Linux Distribution>" will immediately show you what you need. If you can't think to do this, or feel entitled to not do it, the problem is indeed between the chair and keyboard. Any user who feels this way is in desperate need of basic research skills.